On 17 Jul 2010 at 3:36pm popeye wrote:
What are your views on pregnant women smoking. If you are to believe the messages the government put on tobbaco and cigarettes ie. "Smoking Kills" and " Smoking can seriously damage your health". Then surely smoking whilst pregnant is a form of child abuse. I am not having a pop at pregnant women but how hypocritical is the government to allow it if it is that dangerous.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 4:17pm Dave wrote:
So popeye are you saying the government should not allow pregnant women to smoke?
If so what else should the government not allow expectant mothers to do?
Eat overcooked barbecued chicken?
Cross busy roads?
Run with scissors?
Is it a nanny state you're after?
On 17 Jul 2010 at 5:17pm popeye wrote:
Dave dont be a prat there is no comparison.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 5:45pm Dave wrote:
I just don't understand your point of view.
How are the government allowing pregnant mothers to smoke and what dod you think they should do?
On 17 Jul 2010 at 5:55pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
Most women will be advised by their doctor, midwife, health visitor etc whilst they are pregnant about the dangers of smoking - affecting the birth size of the baby, and possibly creating an addiction in the baby if the mother is a very heavy smoker. Pregnant women are also advised on what foods to eat and what to avoid, levels of alcohol (none advised), etc etc.
However I don't see how the government could possibly charge pregnant women who smoke with child abuse, without banning cigarettes completely. You would have to have the cigarette police monitoring a pregnant woman's every move !
It also raises huge (and much debated) questions over womens' rights over their own bodies, at what age a foetus becomes a viable human (and therefore in need of state protection from child abuse), etc. In very very rare cases, women who pose a risk to their own babies whilst they are pregnant, can have their baby placed in care from the moment of birth.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 6:38pm Clifford wrote:
What would you suggest popeye, a special police force to go round smelling pregnant women's breath to check if they've been smoking? Peering through the window or the letterbox?
On 17 Jul 2010 at 6:44pm popeye wrote:
What really started me on this debate was seeing a young pregnant girl in lewes the other day with a can of coke in one hand and a cigarette in the other. I just wondered if it was harming the baby and what other peoples views were on this subject. Perhaps the majority of you think it doesnt matter.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 6:52pm popeye wrote:
No I would not suggest that Clifford. What I would suggest is for you to grow up and not try to get a cheap laugh. Thats the trouble with the Forum, you try to have a grown up debate and the comedians take to the stage.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 6:56pm Dave wrote:
What would you have the government do popeye, I still don't understand your point of view, please explain
On 17 Jul 2010 at 7:33pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
A friend of mine was warned throughout her pregnancy that smoking wluld damage her baby, most particularly that he was likely to be underweight.
Practically her first words after popping out a 9lb 10oz whopper of an infant were "Thank f*** I smoked all those fags". (In fairness, she cut down massively and changed to a brand so mild that smoking them was like a breath of fresh air).
I think people should mind their own business, frankly. A woman should have just the same rights if she's pregnant imo.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 7:50pm me wrote:
"I think people should mind their own business" Spot on.
"Perhaps the majority of you think it doesnt matter." Not true.
Most normal people know that it is wrong, but equally most normal people are not so deluded by their own self righteousness that they think they have a divine right to tell everybody else how to live.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 8:16pm popeye wrote:
I only started this thread to get the views of other people, not to tell everyone else how to live ( ME ). And you are all right, what does it matter if your baby is getting harmed And I am so pleased ( Annette curtin- twitcher) that your friends baby was fine and she actually praised the smoking. So come on Kids get out your fags and when you get a car dont waste your money on high grade oil get the cheap stuff, after all its only an engine a bit like your body.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 8:22pm Misery wrote:
I'm sad, I just wasted 3 minutes of my life reading this tosh and posting this. Said nothing, achieved nothing and I'm none the wiser. I'm off for a smoke.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 8:32pm popeye wrote:
Hi Misery, I know how you feel, the only difference is I have said a lot, achieved nothing and I am definetely none the wiser so if you want company I will join you for a smoke.,
On 17 Jul 2010 at 9:31pm keely wrote:
popeye i feel sorry for you, lol i understand why you started this thread and you've had nothing but smart remarks and sneers. Give the guy a break, people, it was a valid question. My opinion? Smoking whilst pregnant is one of the most selfish thing a woman can ever do.
On 17 Jul 2010 at 9:58pm Misogynist wrote:
The most selfsh thing a woman can do is get involved with men
On 17 Jul 2010 at 10:32pm Roly Mo wrote:
I absolutely hate seeing a pregnant woman smoke, it is completely irresponsible and selfish. However if it was banned, how could you police it? What would happen if a woman looked pregnant but wasn't?? And what about the woman that don't actually show until the late stages? They could be having a sneaky fag and we wouldn't even know they were breaking the law. Basically you have to leave it to the conscience of the mother to be.
On 18 Jul 2010 at 9:19am MC wrote:
Banning stuff like this is getting ridiculous. The state can't even be trusted to ban the right things with any consistency (marijuana and mephedrine are banned, alcohol, cigarettes and methylone are not).
This sort of stuff should be dealt with by education and social pressure, such that people who do these stupid and socially unacceptable things feel akin to lepers. Banning rarely works anyway.
On 18 Jul 2010 at 9:56am jrsussex wrote:
Smoking is an emotive subject as this thred demonstrates. I certainly do not believe that it should be banned, anymore than alcohol or other potentially harmful products. It is those that use them excessively and interfere with others lives that need to be controlled.
Wiht regard smoking, when the banning of it in public places was under discussion I and a group of fellow publicans decided to investigate the allagations related to passive smoking. Despite extensive searches using libraries, the web, Government Health Departments and others we could find no definitive scientific proof that it could harm people. In my own case my own father was the only true chain smoker I ever met (Players Weights, for those that remember them). He literally lit a cigarette from the one he was about to throw away, he was never without a cigarette in his hand. I estimate he smoked between 60/80 a day, he died in his late 70's and his death was not smoking related. I do not argue that smoking kills and/or gives you a poorer life style (I incidentally do not smoke) but the anti-smoking brigade managed to get the result they did by playing very heavily on the passive smoking argument which scientifically is not supported. One last question from a publicans view, what happened to all the non-smokers who, prior to the introduction of the ban, said "If smoking is banned we will use pubs much more". Didn't happened did it?
On 18 Jul 2010 at 12:32pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
"Smoking whilst pregnant is one of the most selfish thing a woman can ever do."
Blimey, you must have led a sheltered life, Keely. I can think of dozens of things that are more selfish - after all, women can do most of the things that men can do, in addition to a few that they can't.
I actually think that neglecting a child after it's born is more selfish than smoking a few fags beforehand. Even in terms of harm to the baby, excessive use of alcohol is more damaging (foetal alcohol syndrome) and taking smack or crack is probably worse too.
Unless the woman is on 40 Capstan Full Strength a day, the harm from a few fags is on a par with eating crap while pregnant imo. Are we to have the Pregnant Lady Food Police, too, to make sure they're all eating their 5 a day and no lard or unpasteurised soft cheese, and taking their folic acid?
There's quite enough for mothers to feel guilty about without guilt tripping them over the occasional tab, ffs. I'm not saying smoking's good for pregnant women and their babies, of course not, but being pregnant doesn't give the nanny-staters the right to control what you do any more than it already does for the rest of us.
I'm not pro-smoking, either - my oldest, dearest friend was diagnosed with lung cancer last week, at the ripe old age of 47. I wouldn't have taken away her right to smoke all those fags, either - she knew the risks and made her choices.
On 18 Jul 2010 at 12:34pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
"One last question from a publicans view, what happened to all the non-smokers who, prior to the introduction of the ban, said "If smoking is banned we will use pubs much more". Didn't happened did it?"
They all go to pubs 2 or 3 times a year and moan about having to walk through the crowd of smokers outside on the pavement!
On 18 Jul 2010 at 12:49pm jrsussex wrote:
A C-T Well said, throughout the UK there are jobworths, Environmental Health Officers, (EHO's) harassing pubs about the noise and inconveniece of pub customers having to stand outside to smoke. One pub £3,000 fine and £800 court costs having been told once to stop customers standing in the street smoking, tried her best but the next time the EHO took her to court. Quite incredible to me in that I was unaware that standing in the street smoking was in itself an offence, EHO's have however managed to make it one even though Parliament has passed no such legislation.
On 18 Jul 2010 at 9:03pm keely wrote:
I love how when people disagree with your opinion, they accuse you of having 'led a sheltered life!' Rubbish. I never said it was the ONLY selfish thing a woman can do, I'm perfectly aware there's worse things. What i said was in my opinion it's ONE of the most selfish things a woman can do, and i still stand by that.
On 19 Jul 2010 at 9:07am Stinking habit wrote:
I don't care if preggy bird smokes her head off as long as she ain't near me. I also don't care if her baby is born a mong, as long as she doesn't go crying to the NHS asking for expensive help
On 19 Jul 2010 at 10:22am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
JR, on another forum I'm on, there was huge row about people smoking outside pubs! The sanctimonious twattery brigade were out in force and, having succeeded in getting smoking banned from pubs entirely, now wanted it banned outside anywhere that was within 5 metres of any public premises, because they didn't like smokers outside pubs, from pub gardens and from parks (on the basis that children go there).
Even pointing out that many people live within 5 metres of a shop, pub, office etc and this would ban them from smoking in their own garden didn't cut any ice. It's as though having won the pub battle, they now want an even more ludicrous smoking restriction.
On 19 Jul 2010 at 12:20pm jrsussex wrote:
They will not be content until they have managed to have it banned altogether. people who want control over others lives really annoy me.
I spent a coupe of hours last night, on the web, on the subject of passive smoking as the investigation I mentioned in an earlier post was done about 3 years ago. The situation does not appear to have changed, I still cannot find any positive scientific evidence that passive smoking is health damaging. Of course if one worked continuously in a smoke filled environment it possibly would be damaging but out in the open air? PLEASE do me a favour, you've more chance of getting run over.
Nice to know that people outside of the licensed trade - A C-T - are aware of the stupidity of the anti-smoking brigade. I remind readers I do not smoke, I actually think it not a nice habit but Mr Read, a Labour Health Minister of a few years back said he was reluctant to support a smoking ban due to it being one of the few pleasures left in the lives of working class people, unfortunately that remains largely true today.
On 19 Jul 2010 at 4:26pm keely wrote:
Lol at stinking habit! I smoke myself but would never impose my decision on my baby if I was pregnant. My sister smoked for 15 years and stopped the second she found out she was expecting, and so would I. It's an evil thing to do to an innocent child
On 20 Jul 2010 at 2:50pm popeye wrote:
jrsussex wrote that he spent a couple of hours on the web checking if smoking harms you. Cant you think for yourself, the lung is a filter and cant be changed unlike a car filter for example, they have tried lung implants but its very dodgy. A small experiment that young smokers can try is to get a clean white piece of material ie. a hanky and make out that it is your lung. Now take a deep draw on a cigarette put the piece of material to your mouth and blow the smoke through it. Not a pretty site to see the stain left by the tar and in most cases this is left in the lung. He also mentioned Mr. Read saying it is one of the few pleasures left to the working class. Well you might think its a pleasure but its really an addiction. Can you remember enjoying your first cigarette I doubt it, myself I found it made me sick and giddy but eventually when I got hooked I thought I enjoyed it. I certainly dont want to control other peoples lives but to say it is harmless is certainly not helping the youngsters.
On 20 Jul 2010 at 3:37pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I'd like to see a comparison of the risks of passive smoking compared to the risks of inhaling other pollutants. I suspect that particulates from vehicle engines cause more harm than passive smoking, unless you have the misfortune to live in a household of chain smokers who are afraid to open the windows.
No-one's suggesting that smoking is safe, but loads of things are bad for you, are we to ban them all? Give people the information and let them choose for themselves, I say.
On 20 Jul 2010 at 7:51pm keely wrote:
exactly, unborn babies CAN'T choose for themselves
On 20 Jul 2010 at 9:06pm popeye wrote:
Well said Keely.