Lewes Forum thread

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money down the drain..

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On 21 Oct 2010 at 11:04am Thread Bear wrote:
BACKGROUND:
how much for Auntie to financially support S4C now?
how much to pay for dual-language signs W of the Severn?
QUESTION:
How many people does it benefit?
FIGURES:
UK Population 61.8million
Welsh Population 2.8million (4.5% of UK)
Welsh speakers 611,000 (21.7% of Welsh population)
those "fluent/use it every day" 408,000 (66% of Welsh speakers)
ANSWER:
What is 408,000 expressed as a percentage of 61.8million?
over to you guys - 'cos it makes be want to vomit!!!!
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 12:05pm Down and Out wrote:
The thing that gets my goat about posts like this is: it's none of your damn business!
Here's what should happen: HM Gov gives a fair settlement to the Welsh Office / Welsh Gov. Then it's up to them and their electorate - and no-one else - whether they spend it on Welsh signs, schools, cheesy peas or lino for all their public toilets. But it's got nothing to do with you!
Too much of what has gone wrong with this country is down to the fact that governments (of all colours) want to tell departments / councils / public bodies exactly how they should organise themselves and what they should spend their money on. Look, for example, at the disasters which have come about as a result of the govt saying, 'If you want to build a hospital you must use PFI', or 'If you want to build a school you must use BSF.'
We would be far better off if the government said (for example to each Police Authority, say) 'Here's your money, sort it out yourselves however you see fit, according to your particular circumstances'.
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 1:19pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
The only thing Thread Bear left out of his figures was how many Welsh speaking Welsh can't speak English. 0% that's how many. Getting a speeding ticket from Powys police must be bad enough but when you get it in English and Welsh it's a obvious waste of money and resources. Surely the whole point of a translation on official documents is to make sure the ethnic minority understands what it says. The money saved by local councils and the government by not providing translations would be well worth spending elsewhere.
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 1:48pm Down and Out wrote:
But, again, that's a decision for the Welsh alone to make. In any case, you're wrong because there are, at the very least, a number of hill farmers who do not speak English.
If the Welsh said that Lewes Bonfire should be cancelled because the policing costs and local authority costs are a waste of money, would you agree?
 
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 2:15pm TeeHee wrote:
Yes
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 2:33pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
Nowhere near the argument I am making. Agree or disagree with their point of view, I would uphold their right to have that wrong view.
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 3:06pm queequeg wrote:
The point here should be that the Welsh language pre dates the English language by a millennium at least and they are entitled to be addressed in their own language in their own country. We should perhaps count ourselves lucky that road signs are also in English. It is not the equivalent of Punjabi or Swahili or Polish.
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 3:29pm Peter Byron wrote:
I once got snowed in whilst staying at a remote and charming little Hotel/Pub in Wales and was able to communicate the following to my hosts: Gwna chloddia blyg a bod si arlwya 'm oenai bincio , ddiolch 'ch Cheers, Peter
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 3:41pm jrsussex wrote:
D and O - You fall at the first fence with regard it being none of "your damn business". You say "HM Government gives a fair settlement to the Welsh Office/Welsh Government".
BRITISH taxpayers money, so yes I do think we have the right to comment on how it is spent.
I entered a village pub in the Snowdonia area of Wales some years ago and was refused service because I could not order the drinks I wanted in the Welsh langauge. That was at the time when property purchased by the English was being burned on a fairly regular basis. I have some great Welsh friends but little sympathy for the spending of money on the dual langauge, it costs an awful lot with no real gain for the UK as a whole. Let those Welsh speaking societies etc that want that to happen seek donations to cover the cost.
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 3:57pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Wales isn't a seperate country you know. The Laws in Wales Act 1535 was created a single country out of the two states of England and Wales and was never repealed. Wales has it's own Prince of course but as he's heir to the throne of England, it doesn't get independent principality status like Monaco for example.

On topic, I'm entirely in favour of Welsh devolution. Let them govern themselves how they want, including paying for themselves. The same for Scotland, cut them loose completely. While we're at it, let all those idiots with the black and white flags on the back of their cars have their way and cut loose Cornwall too as that's a bigger net drain on public finances per head of capita than even Wales manages.

I'm tempted to sign up to Plaid Cymru and the SNP if it means losing this dead weight from the Union sooner rather than later.
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 4:04pm kevsy wrote:
more unbelievable small minded Englishness - how about some respect for history, tradition and local identity rather than reducing everything to a business case? It may not offer any real gain for you - but having English companies or British gots decimating the landscape of Wales and heaping piles of social deprivation on mining towns through an ill conceived method of exit - you now want to eradicate any last bits elements that makes it stand out. You can't have it both ways - either disband the UK back to separate nation sates or respect the elements that make the countries different.
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 4:40pm Peter Byron wrote:
Now let us discuss Northern Ireland, that could take some time! Peter
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 6:45pm Rods Tiger wrote:
I think you've missed the point, that if the signs weren't dual language they would be in WELSH. That's kind of the way it works in countries with a different language to ours. Is that what TB and EBM want ?
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 7:43pm kevsy wrote:
Sign up for freegle - someone will have em
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 8:25pm Thread Bear wrote:
most definitely our business - and if the signs weren't in dual language they would be English - official language of the UK - shall we start Gaelic signs in Scotland? Breton signs in Cornwall - nah I think not - we are discussing a tiny minoriy here and a HUGE drain - why should the Taxpayer fund it and why should the BBC have to finance a channel that caters for 0.66% of the population? - had time to do the sum now
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On 21 Oct 2010 at 9:50pm MC wrote:
The World Service is priceless. An entirely overlooked and undervalued voice propagating and sustaining sensibility, tolerance, companionship, understanding and intelligent civilisation throughout the world.

So sad it is being cut down.
 
 
On 21 Oct 2010 at 10:12pm Corker wrote:
408,000?
Bonfire probably has the same number of members and supporters, so I say we start a campaign for a dedicated bonfire channel!!!
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 8:18am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I think it's great that they are doing so much to preserve the Welsh language. When a language dies out, the culture soon follows.
I don't resent one penny of what it costs and think it's entirely up the devolved parliaments. It's a pity the Cornish didn't do it, there might still be some living native speakers left.
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 8:52am MC wrote:
Do the Welsh have a distinct culture to preserve?
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 9:47am huw wrote:
MC: there's certainly no culture on the Kingsway in Swansea on a Friday night.
(cue Inbertweeners joke)
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 10:54am Dai Version wrote:
Huw, do you ask for 'half 'n' half' when you go to the Spice Merchant?
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 12:08pm sashimi wrote:
I seem to remember a leaflet last Cliffe Independence Day, identifies Posh as the language of those who live there. May one anticpate cultured signage to indicate to the hoi polloi who visit how one is expected to conduct oneself in the Republic?
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 2:19pm Grunge wrote:
I'm sure just bowing and scraping, plus the purchase of a pint or three for others will suffice.
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On 22 Oct 2010 at 3:35pm huw wrote:
Dai, how did you know? It's my Dad's favourite.
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 7:07pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
> MC: Wales has tons of culture, in fact much of what survives of ancient British culture is in Wales, because they haven't been subject to wave after wave of When the Normans invaded, the Welsh regarded themselves as the the heirs of the Arthurian tradition. The Welsh legends (the Mabinogion) are fantastic, there is a rich musical legacy, they celebrate bardic culture annually at the Eisteddfodd, one of the finest British landscape painters (whose name has temporarily escaped me) was Welsh as was Augustus John. Then there's Dylan Thomas, Anthony Hopkins, Manic Street Preachers, Stereophonics, Richard Burton...... quite a lot of culture, for a small country.
 
 
On 22 Oct 2010 at 11:29pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
bloomin 'ecjk ACT, you forgot tom jones. and aled jones. and charlotte church. If I ws welsh I'd be ashamed of you.
 
 
On 23 Oct 2010 at 6:53am MC wrote:
I'm not certain that landscape painters and singers of other people's songs constitute a distinct culture. Most countries produce these. The legends are just that, legends, something that (probably) didn't happen and were well in the past. I interpret culture as the way of life, the current character of a nation or group. The festival disregarding I'm not sure there is much to distinguish the Welsh from anyone else. The Scotch and the Irish (and even the Cornish to some extent) seem to have vestiges of cultures that are distinguishable from the general mass western culture but I'm still having trouble identifying live Welsh cultural characteristics (they don't even have pasties!).
 
 
On 23 Oct 2010 at 9:44am Gloria mundi wrote:
Yes, and the Welsh have saddled us with the shame of Morris dancing, invented in Wales, exported to England and now entrenched as the acme of English Culture. God help us!
 
 
On 23 Oct 2010 at 5:37pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I had hoped my secret admiration for the old Sex Bomb could remain a secret, BB, but you have blown my cover!
And you can hardly blame the Welsh for England's adoption of Morris dancing, Gloria. The Welsh had sensibly left it out for the bin men, but the English brought it home.
 
 
On 23 Oct 2010 at 10:45pm Peter Byron wrote:
Lewes people discussing the Welsh, sure they are not doing the same, too busy getting delish Lamb ready for us lot ha ha. Cheers, Peter


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