Lewes Forum thread

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genuine question Re EU

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On 26 Jun 2016 at 5:22pm confusion wrote:
I'm so confused, can anyone tell me what the benefits of leaving the EU are.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 5:29pm Bob wrote:
We get our country back & can make our own laws.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 5:37pm And more wrote:
Less red tape, free to trade with rest of the world, fishing rights back, less people, lower house prices, less new housing, less strain on resources, kids can get into schools, less job competition and the opportunity to stick 2 fingers up to politicians. What can go wrong
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 5:43pm Turnip wrote:
Definately a feeling that the UK government have more control and hopefully some trade deals with non EU counties. Beyond that, nothing is certain. Maybe better control of EU immigration but that depends on our trade deal with the EU. Possibly some additional money as we'll pay less into the EU but that depends on any negative financial impact if we leave. It will mostly come down to the Brexit deal that we get so watch that with interest!
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 5:44pm Polly Buzz-Off wrote:
Membership fee: 8.5b net (immediate saving once we leave)
Trade: Britain is now FREE to establish its own trade agreements (US, Canada and New Zealand have already made it clear they would like to trade with us).
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 6:14pm Bert wrote:
People are going to accuse me of being a scaremongerer or a liar but the ignorance shown above is terrifying. Countries like the US, Canada and New Zealand that we already trade with would like to trade with us still, that's not a benefit, it's business as usual. It'll be more expensive to trade to the EU countries that currently make up 52% of our trade today, and we're now in competition with the EU and also with a lot more countries than we were previously too that the EU has deals with around what is traded that will no longer protect us. The argument that we were the 5th biggest economy in the world was always false, as our economy was built on the EU.

We're also about to lose the right to trade in euro denomination securities. This is a 12% of GDP we're losing overnight when that happens.

The 8.5bn membership fee doesn't take into account any of the money back that we get (large parts of Wales would be wasteland without massive EU grants) and as we've also already seen, Cornwall are worried what's going to happen to them. Whatever the trade deal that's negotiated Britain will end up financially poorer than the cost of our membership fee. We have to hope there's a rapid increase in some as-yet unspecified industry in the UK to fill the shortfalls. We'll also lose the right to appeal to the European Court which has helped British businesses a lot.

The principle advantage is perceived control of laws and where our money goes. In reality we ducked out of a lot of EU laws anyway (we don't pay into bailing out other countries for example), and lots of laws - like on Human Rights, gun ownership and so on - we are far more stringent than anything that came out of Brussels.

So that brings us to control of our borders. People keep saying we'll be like Norway. Well, Norway has far greater immigration than we do, both from the EU and outside of it. That's the deal they had to make to trade. Already the leading lights of the Leave campaign are saying free movement will stay, Boris even saying numbers of immigrants are unlikely to fall. Read that twice if immigration was part of your reason.

To me it would see that any benefits are purely us avoiding what the EU *might* become in the future. In the short to medium term there is no benefit at all. It's very possible there is no long term benefit either. This is the great unknown, and as yet no-one has indicated there's any kind of plan. Particularly no plan to plug the financial holes. This makes the decision to leave either incredibly brave and optimistic, or incredibly stupid.

I would love a Brexiter to come and explain how the economy is going to be rescued. We've relied on financial services for too long, and we are about to lose our status as financial centre of Europe. What else do we have to enable us to compete with the world?
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 6:46pm Patient wrote:
I thought Boris had promised to spend billions on the NHS.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 6:58pm @bert wrote:
Bert your more intelligent than your comments above suggest surely? Go away and come back when you understand the difference between a uk trade agreement and Europe trade agreement and a wto agreement.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 7:43pm Bert wrote:
I do understand the difference. You give a politician's answer though, suggesting a mistake without explaining what that mistake is because you know you're wrong. Note my correct use of "you're" too...
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 7:56pm * wrote:
These days anyone on this forum who writes at great length I always assume to be pn. Own up Bert!
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 9:15pm No wrote:
That's too well-reasoned, rational and balanced to be the borderline unhinged PN. It's also spot on grammatically.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 9:26pm leaf wrote:
And More, what are you talking about! Please five a rational for your points.
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 9:31pm Local wrote:
Well, we were the world's 5th largest economy when we joined the EU...
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On 26 Jun 2016 at 9:55pm leaf wrote:
Don't know why that says five. I typed give.
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On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:14am @bert wrote:
because you say in respond to the argument that we're free to trade with the rest of the world that we do with USA etc, ignoring that USA etc aren't the rest of the world you say we do already but that's a politicians answer isn't it, the deal we could put in place trumps (you see what I did there) the current EU deal and hopefully not the pitfalls of ttip. Let alone the rest of the world, which is a bigger market than the EU.


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Tom. You clearly think the answer to the question of who pays the interest to the IMF and what else it provides is interesting.... more
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