On 12 Apr 2023 at 10:33am Tom Pain wrote:
Over the past 150 million years on earth: the CO2 level has dropped astonishingly by 90 per cent. Throughout this period life has flourished but if the level dropped below 150 parts per million: plants would die and so would everything else. Save the world, save the building block of life itself, save CO2
On 12 Apr 2023 at 10:58am pedant wrote:
The previous highest level of atmospheric CO2, around 320 million years ago, was 300 ppm. The current level is around 415 ppm.
On 12 Apr 2023 at 6:01pm Nevillman wrote:
What is the source for your information Tom?
On 12 Apr 2023 at 10:46pm Tom Pain wrote:
First I have to ask where pedant got his information.
On 12 Apr 2023 at 11:59pm Tom Pain wrote:
A quick google shows co2 levels in the ordovician period at 3-9000 ppm! Perhaps the pedant has lost a few decimal points as well as brownie ones.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 8:30am pedant wrote:
Yes brownie points have been lost. The most robust data covers a span of the last 800,000 years so yes I should have written thousand not million. Nice to see some error checking done for me and I thank you for that.
While you're doing your victory dance it's interesting that you should highlight that period which of course proves the climate change scientists correct and contradicts your own points. The data you refer to is speculative to a point but a good indicator for the trend we see today in which the increase in Co2 leads to higher global temperatures. Over the last 70 years the rate of Co2 has increased at it's highest rate ever recorded. The prediction models show a steep increase in global temperature over the next 100 years.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 10:49am Tom Pain wrote:
I agree the "data" about things millions of years ago is speculative, as it is for thousands. Modelling data, by it's name is speculative too. From real physical evidence, the ancient greeks were smarter than us and they prognosticated from the innards of dead animals.Computer models are even more manipulable by the programmer than the pythoness. Heyho, techniques change but it's the same scam. But to return to 'facts" levels have been rising very quickly for the past fifty years but the temp hasn't for the past twenty. How come? I'm sure the fact check site will have an answer, you know, the one that will assure you that flu totally disappeared one year, after existing for thousands, and then magically returned. I used to do a mean tango but the victory is not in my repertoire, the chances of competing against wall to wall propaganda are miniscule and I'm not in the game.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 11:56am pedant wrote:
A failed attempt to cherry pick. Using two separate time spans in an attempt to prove a point. Global temperatures have shown a distinctly sharp increase since about 1975. I can't see any evidence that shows over the last twenty years that global average temperatures haven't been on an upward trend.
As for the claim about flu. Think about that for a moment. Fewer flu cases during a pandemic when travel and social gatherings were restricted.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 3:58pm Green Sleeves wrote:
I feel sorry for Tom Pain....he always has many important questions he wants answering. When its not answered to his satisfaction he will just move on to the next question. He is in a perpetual cycle of brain rot from long debunked conspiracy theories and right wing talking points.
I like to use James O Briens approach to zombies like TP.....compassion for the conned, contempt for the conmen. TP is a victim, and in ignorance of being a victim.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 8:15pm Tom Pain wrote:
Glad to see you've dropped that wishy washy tolerant progressive lefty nonsense sleevie, you're a credit to the public school system.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 8:30pm Tom Pain wrote:
I'm thinking hard pedant, oh I get it, don't know why I didn't realise before, the restrictions stopped the flu and caused the covid. That explains everything. Not sure of your climate misinformation about the last 20 years though, who modelled it, someone at Imperial ?
On 13 Apr 2023 at 9:15pm Pedant wrote:
The restrictions didn't stop flu nor did they cause COVID.
No modelling just observation but if climate change was a lie, with a worldwide cover up, what's the prize? What would governments and scientists across the world hope to gain from attempting to lie about something that anyone could measure themselves? It's not disimilar to flat earthers saying the Antartic is an ice wall and you can't go there.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 10:04pm Green Sleeves wrote:
A lockdown, social-distancing measures and masks would have a massive impact on flu rates. No coincidence or surprises at all to see flu so heavily suppressed when severe measures were taken in order to mainly suppress a much more unpredictable and dangerous virus. It was one of a few indirect/side benefits of lockdown, that flu was suppressed, along with air pollution being cut massively, and crime went down.
This is in no way some sort of lockdown-worship....more just stating obvious facts. There were clearly many negatives to locking people down. For one, conspiracy theory idiots end up becoming more extreme and ranty. They get a little too obsessed and desperate to have the last word.
On 13 Apr 2023 at 11:51pm Tom Pain wrote:
Pedant, ok my contention is that covid is just another name for flu (which is a term for seasonal respiratory disease)- the symptoms are the same - which account's for flu disappearing- the restrictions didn't stop anything because covid/flu happened. That's what I was suggesting. How do you measure the climate yourself, I can't do it? That doesn't make sense to me and how it has anything to do with a flat earth or a square,rhomboid or tetrahedral earth is beyond me, have you been taking illicit substances?
On 13 Apr 2023 at 11:55pm Tom Pain wrote:
Sleevie will you please stop othering me. I shall have to insist on a safe space otherwise.
On 14 Apr 2023 at 8:58am pedant wrote:
My first attempt at this reply seems to have disappeared down the Lewes forum blackhole of missing posts so I'll try again.
Tom I take your statement "I can't do it" as an admission that you are in no position to challenge the climate data so that's put an end to that. One point you may still want to discuss is 'What is behind the lie?'
On 14 Apr 2023 at 9:11am Green Sleeves wrote:
No safe spaces for you Painy, you need to be held to account.
Your contention is stupid and we've gone through it time and time again. Excess deaths in 2020 and 2021 were significantly higher. Many of those deaths have been attributed to COVID....it coincides with healthcare systems and experts around the world saying "there is a nasty new virus out there, and it will kill more people than usual". Which it did. Doing the whole "seasonal flu" argument is ghoulish and frankly desperate at this stage. Something I'd expect from the trashier parts of our media like on GB News or TalkTV.
"Seasonal Flu" was broadly suppressed because of lockdown measures. Even if you were to add a "normal" years of flu deaths into the mix to counter this narrative, there would still be thousands more dying unexpectedly. How do we account for those if covid is fake or just "seasonal flu"? They died because they were in fear at home, locked-down and watching the news 24/7? Maybe we all drank ourselves to death of boredom and they just put it down as "covid" on the death certificate? We MUST not accept any other narrative than the one TP has been fed from on a world of alt-right trolls obsessed over the same talking-points. Its the only thing you seem to retain, everything else debunking it goes straight through from one ear and out through the other.
On 14 Apr 2023 at 9:54am Tom Pain wrote:
Well pedant you suggested anyone could measure it themselves. Just tell me how to do it and I'll have a go. As to the second point.....?!?!??...you may have noticed that any unauthorised speculation is frowned on and to do so causes forum mayhem. Sleevie would not only throw his toys out of the pram but propel it over the edge of the flat but multicoloured world. You would declare the world pear shaped with an ice cream topping. And nev would be discovered walking round and round nevill rec muttering - cornsyrupy beery, conservative feary, oh deary. Perhaps you could give us a clue.
As for sleevie, I haven't read your post and for the sake of your mental wellness I suggest you don't read mine. I would not like to be responsible for another psychotic episode.
On 14 Apr 2023 at 10:05am Pedant wrote:
Failure on both points. Subject closed.
On 14 Apr 2023 at 10:20am Green Sleeves wrote:
I will continue to hold trolls like you to account. You can pretend you dont read my posts.
On 14 Apr 2023 at 9:09pm Nevillman wrote:
Serious hypothetical question. If people just ignored Tom would the forum stop altogether or would it get back to the old days of serious comments from an interesting variety of people?
On 14 Apr 2023 at 9:52pm Tom Pain wrote:
Well pedant you've summed it up, though there was only one point- the original title statement was correct. You were the only one to actually dispute it and as you honourably stated you mixed up thousands with millions. Though there were many distractions and tantrums, in the face of no contradictory evidence the fact remains undisputed OVER THE PAST 150 MILLION YEARS THE CO2 LEVEL ON EARTH HAS DROPPED BY 90 PERCENT
On 14 Apr 2023 at 11:16pm Pedant wrote:
Calm down Tom what point are you trying to make other than contradicting your own theories? The global temperatures 150 million years ago were much higher than they are today. Too warm for polar ice caps. Pangaea was still breaking up and the estimates of orbital shift of the earth pushed the elliptic slightly further from the Sun than we are today. Life on earth was very different.
Like I said before. You've confirmed you agree with the climate scientists and you can't offer any new evidence or an explanation for a cover up.
On 16 Apr 2023 at 10:13am Tom Pain wrote:
I suppose so, if you ignore the various ice ages in between! I know it's very fashionable, look at the way the mini ice age is conveniently forgotten. Still, I'm sure they had warm ice in those days.
On 16 Apr 2023 at 11:45am Pedant wrote:
No one is disputing that there have been warm periods and cold periods over time which we've covered on previous threads. The fact is that the current increase in global temperature is following a far steeper curve than ever before. You might think "Well it's happened before what's the problem". How would you mobilize a population of billions to cooler climates?
On 17 Apr 2023 at 10:37pm Tom Pain wrote:
May I suggest that you start your own thread, this one is about co2 levels plummeting for the last 150 million years. Why are you so desperate to divert attention from that? What's so bad about looking at things from a long term perspective? Mind you, I don't blame you being hesitant about threading, there's some pretty psychotic trolls around whose idea of arguament hinges on little more than ad hominems.
On 18 Apr 2023 at 8:44am pedant wrote:
I'm not diverting attention but I'm still left wondering what your point is. It would the same as saying the river level has dropped since the last flood so I'm going to build a dam south of the bridge.
On 18 Apr 2023 at 10:14am Tom Pain wrote:
How perfectly unpedantic. Good to see you're loosening up. Your analogy might be more accurate if you said the river level had dropped for 150 million years. But as a distraction it was very successful. Was it a lapse of acumen or entirely specious?
On 18 Apr 2023 at 11:06am pedant wrote:
Nice try Tom.
On 18 Apr 2023 at 2:22pm Tom Pain wrote:
I don't need to try
. As you asked, my point is- the CO2 level has been dropping for the last 150 million years , would you like it in braille? That's my point. What more do you need?
On 19 Apr 2023 at 11:33am Nevillman wrote:
If co2 levels had been falling constantly for 150 million years it would be true but they haven't. All you can say is that we far as we know the level of co2 is lower now than we think it was 150 million years ago. This is neither interesting or relevant to the current global climate debate. It is far more interesting and relevant to look at co2 levels in the past 200 years which have risen considerably. What is your opinion on that Tom?
On 20 Apr 2023 at 8:59am Tom Pain wrote:
It's an overall trend nev, things go up and down, that's nature for you, never constant or predictable. I find the long view more interesting than the short, I'm often looking back through history, in future I'll try to remember to mark posts with a * to save your time if I'm sure you won't be interested. Information about the past 200 years is abounding , the quantity, if not the quality is quite daunting. No I don't apologise for trying to draw attention to the big picture and giving some perspective so people can draw their own conclusions. I may get on to the subject in subsequent posts but as it has nothing to do with the matter at hand, I'll leave it for the moment. I may even introduce some confectionary theories.
On 21 Apr 2023 at 8:23am Nevillman wrote:
Thanks for the suggestion about the asterix Tom but it won't be necessary to have you indicate the posts with irrelevant information in them. I just look at the name of the poster and I know.
It doesn't mean to say I'm not interested or amused by what you have to say Tom.
On 21 Apr 2023 at 8:41am Tom Pain wrote:
I'm not into asterix, tintin's more my thing.
On 22 Apr 2023 at 11:12am Nevillman wrote:
I had you more as Winnie the Pooh. A bear of very little brain.
On 23 Apr 2023 at 9:27pm Tom Pain wrote:
So CO2 has still diminished by 90% in the last 150 million years, I still sh!t in the woods, but why all the noise?
On 24 Apr 2023 at 9:46am pedant wrote:
To be fair to Tom his thought he had good solid evidence to start this post but lost it early on so he took a fallback position. The world 150 million years ago was very different from the world today. Understanding the current climate crisis and what it means might bring some more constructive discussion.