On 28 Nov 2011 at 6:09pm Teachers Pet wrote:
There has been much political jostling on this Forum regarding the World's current economic mess. We know the cause only too well.
Perhaps we could use the obvious expertise that exists locally and suggest some workable solutions?
Forget political point scoring and see what we can come up with: you never know Lewes could be the start point of the World recovery.
On 28 Nov 2011 at 6:22pm SHS wrote:
Work. Borrow tools, skill, knowledge, your friends and neighbours even but not money. Trade only within the distance you can walk in a day. Keep its simple - we need food, water, shelter & good company, no more. Let every man and woman contribute - no hangers-on.
On 28 Nov 2011 at 8:32pm C#m7 wrote:
Sadly many do not "know the cause too well". The jostling arises from different perspectives deriving from different interests and prejudices, and doses of schadenfreude. I read some awful rubbish on this forum about public servants getting pensions to rival the head of barclays bank etc... Things people cite that they wish were true to confirm their prejudices. As this country now makes next to nothing, we are forced to rely on things from afar. Even the gas in your cooker. Whilst we must accept the transition to come, which SHS in some sense describes, [transition town,anyone?] in the meantime how about sharing the cake a bit more evenly. The disparities of wealth in our society have increased exponentially to what great outcome? This current obsession with the markets is the tail wagging the dog: what is it all for? This is still a stunningly wealthy country and some businesses are still making stunning profits. [Anyone know of any major footballers taking a pay cut?] Be political and proudly demand that the rich are rounded up, their wealth taken from them and then they are forced to live in [supply appropriate name of undesirable location]. You know it makes sense.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 2:40am SHS wrote:
Why do some so love to attack 'the rich'? The vast majority of 'the rich' have worked bloody hard for what they own and earn, have paid a lot of taxes and fees in the process and often paid the wages of many employees. Shareholders in their companies are often the very pension funds that give us all something in retirement. There must be some incentive to work and succeed otherwise everyone in the UK will end up on benefits. The injustice is not 'rich vs poor' but the daily giving of a huge chunk of Britain's wealth to millions of people of working age who contribute nothing in taxes or work. That said, I accept that a small minority of wealthy folk should certainly pay more tax, be more accountable when they mess up (bankers, fund managers etc) and accept tighter controls for a fairer world.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 8:52am viva socialism wrote:
The rich were finally finished for me when I learned that they pay no stamp duty on property purchase - most super expensive piles are bought by specially set up off shore companies; must make young people struggling for a home of their own feel good.
Also Westminster council are currently trying to trace the many invisible owners of super expensive private property in central London who don't choose to bother with troublesome council tax..... after all it is a rather parochial tax when set within a
On 29 Nov 2011 at 9:27am bastian wrote:
SHS I agree but some people can't work because they are old, disabled or find it difficult with children(who are a full time job unpaid) so there does need to be room for those you call "hangers on".
On 29 Nov 2011 at 1:13pm C#m7 wrote:
The issue is not whether the rich work hard for their vast pile but whether they worked harder than anyone else, and proportionate to their vaster wealth. My contention is that they do not. Many wealthy people have just been lucky and had opportunities, many are crooks and many inherited their wealth. With wealth comes greater power: eg to avoid tax or other social duties. The upper echelons of our business community effect a cartel where they leap frog each others' wages, to no greater collective good. Our society is rigged in favour of the rich, who are getting richer as we speak: who for example are major beneficiaries of low interest rates? those with the largest mortgages, maybe? Whilst most of the country's property market languishes in the dolldrums, the top end in London is subject to gazzumping - COZ THEY'RE LOADED. Our so called society is NOT a meritocracy and has never been so. But when Philip Green, billionaire, pays no UK tax [and not alone in that regard], it sticks in my craw to hear people winging about the spongers next door who have two cars. It's like insisting the police target the school children who nick a few sweets from the corner shop whilst city carpetbaggers loot our economy with our blessing. WAKE UP YOU COLLABORATORS
On 29 Nov 2011 at 1:27pm MI goodness wrote:
Spam or real?
On 29 Nov 2011 at 3:41pm bastian wrote:
tell iy like is is brother.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 4:37pm bastian wrote:
sadly nothing short of an apocalyptical event will actually change anything at the moment..or a revolution..but considering how we are made to feel if we even say "This is wrong" or" I don't want this thing to change" a revolution seems out of the question.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 5:19pm C#m7 wrote:
Bastian, old bean, I feel kinda 'bring on the recession', because it's only when this mad consumer carousel spins into the doodoo that people might wake up. How many friggin mobile phones can you eat, after all? Millipede has a point about the excluded middle and the more the [vocal] middle classes get to feel the pinch the more maybe pressure will build for change. Sadly for too long, those suffering from the right wing assault have been in a minority and hence have been marginalised [spongers, chavs, immigrants, unemployed, whoever]. So let's widen the franchise with a good deep recession - excellent! However whilst i long for a spot of blue blood gracing the guillotine, I am not optimistic. You can but dream, eh?
On 29 Nov 2011 at 5:34pm Dingo wrote:
C#m7 your observations surely strike a chord with me.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 6:06pm Clifford wrote:
SHS - basic economic error. It isn't the rich employer who 'supports' his or her workers, it is the workers who support the rich employer. Profit it made by paying the worker less than the value of the good or service he or she produces. Another thing - the only creative thing the majority of the rich have done is to be born into the right family. Most wealth is inherited.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 6:51pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Yet again, Clifford, you have posted exactly what I was thinking. We are surely twins separated at birth.
VS, I read an article about those flats, too. Did you notice that the council tax for a mega-million pound apartment on Hyde Park is LESS than for a band C house (eg, 2-bed shoebox on the Nevill) in Lewes? How does that work, then?
On 29 Nov 2011 at 6:51pm SHS wrote:
Bastian, point taken, the elderly certainly deserve a pension sufficient to comfortably pay the cost of living, the genuinely sick the help they need and children should have the choice of a parent at home or a creche (school even) in the workplace. And yes (C#M7?), the workplace is very unfair - a teacher can work a 70 hour week, dedicated to enriching the adult lives of the children lucky enough to be educated by someone with such knowledge and passion for his job, yet the teacher may earn a tenth or a hundreth of a city banker in a job of no importance whatsoever. Life is not fair. Take things down to a very local level, to small village groups, and maybe people will be more accountable, more responsible, and at least have a better idea of the facts rather than relying on media stories and political rhetoric promoting extreme left or right views. 'Nuf said, time wasted.
On 29 Nov 2011 at 7:22pm Clifford wrote:
SHS writes, '... the teacher may earn a tenth or a hundreth of a city banker in a job of no importance whatsoever. Life is not fair.'
SHS, do you think this kind of thing happens like a fall of rain or the appearance of a rainbow? Society and the economy are a human creation. Capitalism is the way it is to ensure that a minority are wealthy. Do you think it just so happens that a dedicated teacher earns in a year what a pointless money-shuffler is paid in a week?
On 29 Nov 2011 at 10:16pm Tealeaf wrote:
And that the money shuffler gets more respect (until recently that is).
On 30 Nov 2011 at 12:49pm Fartington Greedbucket wrote:
What`s wrong with shuffling money?.It beats working for a living.