On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:02pm Zebedee wrote:
Cameron's not quite so stupid after all.... maybe....
With thanks to a Guardian commentator.
"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?"
On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:23pm Jonny wrote:
It's not Cameron who decides anything people, it's money, business, establishment etc etc etc Cameron is a front man, just like Johnson, Corbyn , and every other "leader" since we were born, WAKE UP and look at the back story that you won't get from mainstream media who are part of the same mechanism. Change the system you voted for, not your vote.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:27pm TERRIFIED wrote:
Germany has ruled out any possibility of informal talks on Britain leaving the EU before it files formal notice of its intention to go, dealing a major blow to the Brexit campaign’s leaders.
As the US secretary of state, John Kerry, flew into Brussels for urgent talks at the start of a crunch week for Europe, chancellor Angela Merkel’s spokesman said only Britain could start the exit process and “if the government needs a reasonable amount of time to do that, we respect that”.
But Steffen Seibert added: “One thing is clear – before Great Britain has sent this notification, there will be no informal preliminary talks about the exit modalities.”
Brussels has also emphatically ruled out informal talks on a possible trade deal before the UK triggers article 50. “No notification, no negotiation,” one official said on Sunday. A diplomat added: “If they treat their referendum as a non-event, we will also treat their referendum as a non-event.”
As shockwaves from the Brexit vote continued to spread, EU officials also said on Sunday the bloc was preparing to move its European Banking Authority from London, setting up a race led by Paris and Frankfurt to host the regulator.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:35pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Michael Heseltine was in splendid form on the BBC this morning. In essence, he said that as Johnson, Gove and Farage got the country into this mess, they should be the ones to negotiate the exit terms.
He was very grumpy, too.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 12:45pm Trainspotter wrote:
Project Fear was right, it's bl**din' frightening!
On 27 Jun 2016 at 1:01pm Florence wrote:
The longer we leave formally tending our article 50, the longer the country will have to see the reality of the mess it has got itself into and that's exactly what we need, a bloody great reality check.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 1:14pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Yeah, far better to invoke Article 50 right now and rush into things without a Prime Minister, cabinet or Opposition in place. Decisions made quickly on the spur of the moment are almost always the best ones.
I'm pleasantly surprised to see that all but the most swivel-eyed of loons (Hi Paul) have started to accept the result and given up the frankly embarrassing attempts to get the democratic decision of the nation overturned. I'm sure as the week goes on and the sky doesn't fall down more and more people will come to realise the world isn't going to end and we can look forward to a grown-up conversation about the way forward. I for one am looking forward to the inevitable General Election, should be an interesting one.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 1:27pm jmmm wrote:
I agree with Michael Heseltine. Those who got us into this, should get us the best deal and I don't think Boris should be allowed to stand for PM until he has earned his stripes by facing the EU and providing us with the kind of deal he said he would be able to get. Then and only then, should there be a change of PM. On the subject of Corbyn, I would suggest that he is appealing to the very people who voted for Brexit, the disaffected and ignored) and that he will be the best leader for them. Damn this broad church nonsense. All that means is more Tory policies in disguise and no real reform at home which is what those who voted out. Perhaps Diane Abbott is right and we need a revival of a centre party like the Lib Dems. And then we need a new voting system to stop the first past the post nonsense we have now.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 1:34pm Zebedee wrote:
@Ed Can Do.
Why do you think a General Election is inevitable? Brown replaced Blair without an election.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 2:18pm Adventurous wrote:
What a bunch of doom merchants! Stop being so parochial and narrow-minded. There is a much greater world outside of Europe and you should be looking forward to this fresh start.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 2:53pm Tim wrote:
Do you really think that all parties involved didn't have a Plan B? For example, immediately before David Cameron announced a referendum, Boris had drafted two articles for the Telegraph, one for staying and one for leaving. It is the way things are done.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 3:13pm Cat nap wrote:
Regardless we will all loose out in some way
On 27 Jun 2016 at 3:17pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Yeah, Brown replaced Blair with no election and was instantly known as the PM nobody voted for, failed to get anything done, presided over a collapse of financial institutions that everyone except the bankers responsible are still paying for and all but ensured Labour will never be the ruling party in this country again. Do you think any senior Tory is brave or stupid enough to repeat that? Whoever takes over from Hameron will want to hold a General Election to validate their position, especially with the parliamentary Labour party currently learning nothing from the referendum and assuming they know better than the electorate and trying to oust their leader.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 4:12pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
It's not particularly unusual for a new PM to be installed without an election. It happened with both Major and Callaghan, and I think Douglas-Home as well (I was very young, but I'm pretty sure Macmillan resigned mid-term on health grounds, and then lived on long enough to have a go at Thatcher 20 years later).
On 27 Jun 2016 at 4:59pm Zebedee wrote:
@ Ed Can Do
That Brown "failed to get anything done, presided over a collapse of financial institutions that everyone except the bankers responsible are still paying for and all but ensured Labour will never be the ruling party in this country again" really has no bearing on the fact that by handing over the position to Brown Blair set a precedent. And it seems like it was set before anyway.... according to ACT.
On 27 Jun 2016 at 5:41pm Zebedee wrote:
In fact I've just heard Cameron say "when we have a general election in 2020"...
On 28 Jun 2016 at 10:41am busby wrote:
Give it time, Rome wasn't built in a day. Don't talk our country down.