On 20 Aug 2015 at 8:58am Paul Newman wrote:
It is now certain that the Labour Party has ceased to be . Historians will have enormous fun teasing out the reasons for this, they ,may put it in the context of European Social Democracy which has been attacked form left ( Corbyn) and right ( UKIP).
Firstly lets dismiss any pretence that Corbynism has anything to do with the Labour Party post Benn.
Milliband pledged to freeze energy prices, (confiscating profits), a state rail operator, state intervention for buses, bookmakers and banks. He had a tax grab bill an elected House of Lords ,opposed welfare cuts and condemned prudence.
He promised to protect tax credits, raise corporation tax, raise the top rate , tax bank bonuses,high value property and anyone sending their kids to private school.
He pledged a British investment bank ,more council houses and remove students from the immigration cap to reverse NHS privatisation with more money for NHS, Sure Start and ttuition fees.He was going to scrap hedge fund tax breaks and cut pensions tax relief and to reverse the so called bedroom tax.
In short he was already a mile left of New Labour Brown or Blair versions and accentuated it with a background noise of anti Capitalist muttering .
New Labour itself shifted the country massively from private to public sector.
The country rejected this left wing version of social democracy absolutely and now the Labour Party have rejected any compromise. Corbyn represents a political view which does not seek to moderate capitalism it actually hates it. The key issue is America, hated by Corbynites but admired by Social democrats with varying degrees of reservation.
So we now have something we have not had for many decades in this country ,a new grouping where, on the one side are those who fundamentally support Capitalism with reservations and those who oppose it.
Capitalism for all its faults has been the force that has lifted the true poor of the world from a life we can hardly imagine, the stats are extraordinary. Collectivism has failed where ever it has been tried and usually accompanied with coercion corruption sheer incompetence and state violence.
I know which side I am on, which side are you on ?
On 20 Aug 2015 at 9:37am Outintheestates wrote:
I come from a huge Union background where labour voting was a must but I would never vote for this mob they aren't labour
On 20 Aug 2015 at 10:15am Localbod wrote:
These posts are like a visit from the Jehovah Witnesses.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 11:45am Oddbod wrote:
I really like JWs. I always invite them in and pray with them. They seem a bit sad about life though.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 11:54am Grafter wrote:
I keep getting this image of Corbyn as PM inviting the Donald into Downing st. Funny thing is they would probably get on fine.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 12:01pm Don Corlyoni wrote:
You disrespect Don who is the Donald anyway?
On 20 Aug 2015 at 12:03pm Oddbins wrote:
I wonder how long it takes to write this stuff, and if it is posted elsewhere?
On 20 Aug 2015 at 12:10pm Paul Newman wrote:
I wrote it in when I got to work took about 15mins and posted it here.If you aren`t interested ...fair enough
On 20 Aug 2015 at 12:25pm Oddbins wrote:
Ah, that explains why it is so badly written. Try taking a bit more time to write less, better.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 12:35pm Oddbod wrote:
Excellent disqualification by oddbins who appears to think he or she is some sort literary critic. We await your carefully edited output with eager anticipation.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 1:04pm GCSE English Result wrote:
Um...it's kind of obvious, isn't it? Oddbins wouldn't be the first to mention the art of brevity. If the author had spent 16mins writing it, instead of 15, the punctuation and grammar could have been corrected. GCSE Politics students will also notice a crude binary view of politics, and opinion based on presumption passed off as fact.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 1:36pm Paul Newman wrote:
I was wondering if there might be scope for some new center group occupying ground the Osborne David Milliband, Liz Kendall ..well New Labour and moderate Conservatives basically.
A balanced view of immigration
Supportive of Public Services but reforming
Open to constitutional change
Compassionate but not a soft touch
Atlanticist - pro Trident
Supportive of modern Liberal Islam
That sort of thing ...
On 20 Aug 2015 at 2:03pm GCSE English Result wrote:
much clearer, more interesting. no one cares about the odd typo in posts like this.
the other style is not as good as you think it is, and it only took 15 minutes for a reason.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 3:21pm Falmer Palmer wrote:
@ Paul Newman. From your very first sentence I switched off. How can you make such pathetic generalisations? Jeremy Corbyn will be a breath of fresh air to the 50 shades of Tory politics we have been slowly duped into over the last 20 years and hopefully one day you will LISTEN MORE and SPEAK LESS when he has greater influence within our political narrative! xx
On 20 Aug 2015 at 4:46pm Ben wrote:
Welcome Corbyn, you will guarantee I won't see another labour government in my lifetime. When was it ever a good idea to allow those least fit to govern to be elected by those who contribute little or nothing. You already know where you can all stick your thumbs down. Oh, and no I'm not a Tory, or rich. My politics are simply work hard and stop whinging and be happy with what I have or have not. I'm sick of hearing people blame the government for their shortcomings.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 6:05pm Trooper wrote:
@ Ben Well said sir, indeed very well said.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 7:25pm bastian wrote:
well Paul, I couldn't be botherd to trawl through your speach, though if I wree caught on the forum at work I'd lose my job, so I wait until i'm home or on a break.
But, If the labour party split, it won't be the end of labour, it will be th ereatoration of labour, a time in which the alien New Labour has been and gone, so the staus quo will have been resumed and they will be forgotton as a gimmick, wehich is what they were.
Bye bye, I will not miss them.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 9:19pm Capitalism is Dying wrote:
Viva Corbyn,Viva Labour,Viva Britain!
On 20 Aug 2015 at 10:02pm Labour member2 wrote:
I cannot say I am on the side of capitalism Paul. It is wrecking our planet and making people miserable. Do you really think we were meant to live like this? It is a form of complete collective insanity.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 10:29pm not from around here wrote:
Can I ask those that are so pleased with Jeremy Corbyn's progress why they are so pleased? Surely if you are a Labour supporter you would want a labour government? Very puzzled really as if Corbyn succeeds then the chances of a labour gov in the near future are very, very slim. I personally am on the side of the Tories but I do believe it is good for democracy if there is a credible opposition, and there isn't.
On 20 Aug 2015 at 11:55pm Muttley wrote:
Not from around here, as far as I can tell Corbynettes don't want a labour government. A lot would like a Green government, but don't think there's much chance of that. Go figure.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 1:35am Darstard wrote:
It's mostly signalling by prig progs to their friends. You know, Lecturers,academics,people in the arts and social services etc. They really hate Tories and despise small business. They often live in large badly insulated houses with solar panels and are in favour of lots of immigration as they see all humans as essentially equal and interchangeable (apart from Tories.)
On 21 Aug 2015 at 8:24am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Not From Round Here, I would like Corbyn to win because, as a socialist, I have felt effectively disenfranchised from mainstream politics since Blair became leader. My political views (and there are many, very many, who share them) haven't been represented by a major party for many years.
Of course those on the left would prefer a Labour government to a Tory one, but when the PLP supports Tory spending plans and fails to oppose cuts that will be damaging to the poorest and most vulnerable, the choice is between dreadful and slightly dreadful. I want to be able to vote for a party that could, if elected, transform our public services for the better, reduce inequality, provide secure, affordable homes and make sure that no-one needed to use a food bank and children weren't going to school hungry.
I realise that this is anathema to the Newmans of the world for whom public sector is always bad and private sector always good, and think that welfare is a dirty word, but I make no aplogy for that.
If Corbyn is elected and the rightward drift of Labour stops, I will be absolutely delighted. We need an alternative to the prevailing view that big business is more important than the needs of our old, our young, our sick and our poor. Being towed along in the wake of the Tories, as Labour has been since John Smith died, will never provide that.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 9:28am Mark wrote:
Because, NFAH, what else do you do when you observe us drifting towards an American political model? A charade of a system where there are two right wing parties that are indistinguishable the one from the other and it makes little difference whether a party markets itself as being lead by black Chicago streetfighter or a (thick as a short plank) "financial wizard" because the decisions are made in boardrooms of MNCs. Gosh. Is it just me or is PN coming across as seriously unhinged? Get a hobby Paul. Take up a sport. Learn a musical instrument.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 9:32am Taff wrote:
Labours real problem, I think, is trying to recreate Socialist values to get the votes of those with socialist values but whose population is diminishing whilst trying to be attractive to the yuppy influenced Thatcher era younger population. Not made any easier by tosspot Blair furthering Thatcherism. He has been just as damaging as Thatcher to those with true Socialist ethic. Would still be better than the smug lying dicktatorship currently at the helm IMO but thats another discussion I guess.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 11:01am Paul Newman wrote:
ANC- If you think Ed Milliband was right wing then we are clearly living on different planets . I am the one who cares about public services and a Compassionate society, you just want your big fat pension.
Mark questioning the health and sanity of those who disagree with you is something I expect to hear more of as Labour is "purged" of its "virus ". I already play piano keyboards ,soul blues jazz , dance (I think) a pretty good soulful shuffle support my boys at mini rugby and still find time to provide you with a much needed free education from time to time .
On 21 Aug 2015 at 1:33pm Clement Attlee wrote:
Paul, as I said many years to Harold Laski - "A period of silence on your part would be most welcome"
On 21 Aug 2015 at 1:51pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Lol Paul I already get my "big fat pension" thanks. It's a princely £187 a month, net. Barely covers the paper bill for a Guardian reader like me.
I'm intrigued by your claim that you care about public services, since you're generally scornful of those who provide them, and as for a compassionate society, your support the party that damages the services that vulnerable people rely on for their most basic needs rather belies that claim.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 1:58pm Lopster wrote:
I only want a Labour Government if I believe their ideals and not under any circumstance, ie. Irrelevant of whatever bleeding heart middle ground they appear to choose merely to win votes
On 21 Aug 2015 at 3:00pm Paul Newman wrote:
Au contraire, there is nothing compassionate about spending more on debt interest repayments, paying off city investors and others, than on housing, than on schools.There is nothing fair about spending more on ex public sector employees endless holidays than on the services they are supposed to provide .
There is absolutely nothing collective about joining the long list of countries who have debauched their currency and faced economic catastrophe. Who do you think suffers the consequences of that ?
I am not scornful of public sector employees but as their interests are always for higher taxes higher borrowing and less work I am some what uninterested in their political views.
As teachers, nurses and policemen etc most are fantastic people.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 9:43pm Mark wrote:
Worryingly unhinged. Just saying in a friendly way.
On 21 Aug 2015 at 10:22pm Paul Newm@n wrote:
I know I'm a prat but I like writing these huge nonsensical tirades of bullsh!t just to get right up your nose!
And yes I write on any other websites that still puts up with me!
On 22 Aug 2015 at 8:17am bastian wrote:
Paul, that is the monst honest thing you have ever written-in line with Corbyn, you have told the truth, and I respect that.
By the way, given it was 20 past 10, had you been drinking?
On 24 Aug 2015 at 7:49pm Mark wrote:
Drinking and doing Dad dancing to a Wet Wet Wet album I'd imagine.