Lewes Forum thread

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Lewes Forum New message

What Is England ?

 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 9:59am Paul Newman wrote:
I was interested in the symbolic importance of the Queen visit to Croker Park the centre of the Gaelic athletic association and symbol of Irish Nationalism. Its curious how important cultural identity is to the idea of a nation .As ties with Scotland inevitably weaken England will not longer be defined as the dominant part of what was , in truth,Greater England. Lewes resident "Torque" has a web site devoted to the subject of Englishness and whilst I am no fan of Billy Bragg I certainly agree that the new cultural identity of post Imperial England cannot be left to the EDL( ugh...)
No doubt there will be competing visions of the new imagined community but what would an English Broadcasting Company look like ,? What would it mean to be black and English ( if anything )?
I see this new exciting new England as more local, as institutions designed for Empire dissolve. Far less collectivist, certainly, and less European if European means political subordination.
More poetic .. I need hardly elaborate
More Romantic - Elgar could not be Scottish
More Stylish ...the English line , the English style
Less Puritanical
Less military
More mercantile
Lewes sits at the beginning of an inviting plain that tempted invaders from the dark ages through Phillips of Spain and Napoleon . This is why it is defined by its sense of Englishness and a defence of it .
So, should anyone be interested, I wonder how Lewesians the quintessential English men and women feel about the re birth of England and what defines England to them.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 11:02am Rip Van Winkle wrote:
YAWN.....................ssssssssssssss!
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 11:20am Old Cynic wrote:
England is what you make it based on what our ancestors made of it
Its a land full of hybrid Heinz 57 citizens - being English is cultural rather than ethnic
England actually meand land of the Angles
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 12:37pm Vesbod wrote:
That's right OC, we're well and truly multicultural and probably Heinz 101 !! We've moved on from "the empire" and the "thin red line" and all that ol' tosh (though fine in it's day). My background is Welsh, English, Polish, German and Russian....but I'm a Brit through and through...and am proud of the cultures that that reflects....and the associated history as well (obviously don't like the bad bits so much !!).
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 1:05pm Grrr wrote:
According to the results of the recent local elections and the vote on AV, it appears that England is a lond mostly full of knob-ends like you Paul Newman.
I'm glad to have helped clear that up for you.
(In all seriousness, if that is indeed the case, I'll be moving far far away...)
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 1:40pm MC wrote:
Paul Newman (aka knob-end) said:

"I see this new exciting new England as more local, as institutions designed for Empire dissolve"

Starting with the Tory party hopefully.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 2:11pm Grunge wrote:
I thought we'd had done with all this juvenile name calling. This isn't the House of Commons.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 3:24pm Paul Newman wrote:
Sticks and stones Grunge ....my hopes weren`t high. Toque has a great site on this very subject with loads of essays on England and what it is.Well worth a look
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 4:16pm Clifford wrote:
'Winds of the World, give answer! They are whimpering to and fro‚??
And what should they know of England who only England know?'
I see you're doing a very good Stanley Baldwin impression Paul.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 4:20pm Lambo wrote:
Paul - try reading Billy Bragg's book about the English. Very informative and entertaining; as is the man himself.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 6:37pm Paul Newman wrote:
I cannot say I am much of a Bragg fan , detest his political views and he is not my cup of tea as an artist really . I did however say there will be competing visions of England and he is someone who has tried to claim history for the left. Probably worth reading
( He lives in Dorset you know ...the whitest country in the UK)
1
 
On 18 May 2011 at 8:30pm observer wrote:
Paul are you sure that City of London UWA approve of you spending so much of your (and their) time on this forum?
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 8:46pm Deelite wrote:
Are you sure it's not Paul's business (or perhaps Croydon based franchise of Giles):
www.cityoflondonuwa.com/Home/CONTACTUS.aspx
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 8:52pm observer wrote:
Paul Newman - "I am sorry I do not interest you but if it makes you feel any better you bore the tits off me with your witless old lady-ish prattle.
Have a nice day ..or drop dead ...I `m easy either way moron."
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 10:11pm observer wrote:
As you can see, a well balanced fascist if ever there was one.
 
 
On 18 May 2011 at 11:35pm Lambo wrote:
Paul Newman - your posts on this forum have been somewhat diluted since you were outed on this forum. You may not like Mr Bragg, but to 'detes't his political views; someone who has fought against and argued tirelessly for decades against facism, shows the type of person you are.
 
 
On 19 May 2011 at 1:12pm Clifford wrote:
Not my job to defend Paul Newman Lambo, but I can't see how someone who writes about Bragg 'I did however say there will be competing visions of England and he is someone who has tried to claim history for the left. Probably worth reading' deserves an insult for that. 'Probably worth reading'. Did you see that before you posted?
 
 
On 19 May 2011 at 3:09pm Lambo wrote:
Clifford - It was the 'detest his views' bit that got my goat. I happen to think Mr Bragg speaks a lot of sense, campaigning for years against the BNP etc. but there we go.
 
 
On 19 May 2011 at 3:36pm Clifford wrote:
Couldn't agree more Lambo - but let's try to be fair to Paul Newman, even if we do.... er.... disagree with his views.
 
 
On 19 May 2011 at 11:44pm Not from around here wrote:
It seems incredible to me how narrow minded some of the left-wingers are on this forum by automatically denouncing anybody who dares to have tory views. Can't we just listen to what people have to say regardless of their political inclinations and judge their arguments purely on merit rather than always along party lines? Seems a bit unsophisticated to me to judge people as 'bad' just because they may have tory inclined views, but then I'm 'not from around here' so perhaps I don't understand this village mentality.
 
 
On 20 May 2011 at 12:03am Webbo wrote:
For me England is the land I live in, it transcends any political party belief, any transient force trying to change its nature.
It's my country and when I say I'm proud of it I mean its hills, valleys, coast, marshes, moors, mountains, it's people.

Patriotism seems to have been commandeered by politicians for their own partisan gain and I for one want it back.

I want my flag the Union jack to represent my country again not some neo fascist political movement.
 
 
On 20 May 2011 at 1:45pm NewLewesian wrote:
Since when was the Union jack english?
1
 
On 20 May 2011 at 4:20pm Old Cynic wrote:
Isn't it only a Union Jack when flown on a ship? Otherwise its the Union Flag - which represents the Union of the Kingdoms.
The national flag of England is, as we all know, the Cross of St George (who was probably Greek) and I for one am happy to reclaim that flag from the far right!
 
 
On 23 May 2011 at 3:17pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Although St George probably was Greek, his symbol has been used as an "official" English emblem since the Battle of Eversham in 1265 when royalist forces used it to distinguish themselves from the White cross on a red background used by the rebels at the Battle of Lewes the previous year.

It was actually the pope who got the Crusaders wearing it, even earlier than that although originally English soldiers had white on red and the French used red on white until an official swap in 1188.

Personally I'd feel much more patriotic about a St George Cross than the Union flag and I definitely see myself as English rather than British. I'm totally in favour of Scottish and Welsh independence too although I'm surprised the Scottish and Welsh are so up for it, given the net inflow of funds from English tax revenue that pays for things like free prescriptions and uni places in Scotland. Both countries (Well, the country and the principality technically) would struggle to remain solvent is they were completely independent.
 
 
On 31 May 2011 at 4:30pm nickkkolas wrote:
yep fine,
i'm new here...
good to see this forum.


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lewes penny 73:132
lewes penny

Just noticed. TP started "Quote of the Moment", although it's hard to understand what it's for. more
QUOTE OF THE MOMENT
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell