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West Lothian Max

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On 10 Sep 2014 at 12:32am Bully Beef wrote:
This is from the New Statesman :
The Scottish parliament already controls most of domestic policy – education, health, social work, housing, agriculture, planning and criminal justice. Yet Scottish MPs can still decide English education, health, social work, housing, agriculture, planning and criminal justice policy. The Welsh Parliament has lesser but still significant powers as does the Northern Ireland Assembly.
To date, Westminster has avoided answering Tam Dalyell’s West Lothian question
‘For how long will English constituencies and English Honourable members tolerate … at least 119 Honourable Members from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland exercising an important, and probably often decisive, effect on English politics while they themselves have no say in the same matters in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?’
... by offering the Scottish parliament the power to control and set Scottish income tax. Scotland will have home rule in all but name. There will be no justification then for allowing Scots to vote on English matters.
( Nick Cohen)
Quite - As I predicted the left are returning to their plot to carve up England into regions let them run the buses and pretend that makes it fair. Don`t be fooled the English have a right to fair votes.

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On 10 Sep 2014 at 9:54am Mania wrote:
If I were a Tory like Newmania I would be asking myself over and over again quite why we have become so unpopular in Scotland. They will probably mutter about Scottish Socialists, but the Conservatives had the largest slice of the vote north of the border in the 1950s and 1960s, and Scots are actually more Conservative on many issue than the English.
Yet the party is utterly despised in the homeland of Adam Smith and David Hume. The fault must lie with the Conservative party, not with Scots.
Scots were firmly pro-union until the 1980s. Clearly the greatest figure in the cause of Scottish nationalism was not Alex Salmond, it was Margaret Thatcher, thanks partly to her decision to use Scotland as a testbed for the hated Poll Tax, summing up the way that the Conservative party saw Scotland (and probably still sees it). All this despite Scotland's disproportionate contribution to the British empire, to British inventions, British genius and British democracy.
 
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On 10 Sep 2014 at 12:03pm Fedupwithhearingit wrote:
Everything is Thatcher's fault.
She even started all this stuff in Syria and Subud
 
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On 10 Sep 2014 at 12:03pm Fedupwithhearingit wrote:
Everything is Thatcher's fault.
She even started all this stuff in Syria and Subud
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On 10 Sep 2014 at 12:30pm Spawn of Thatcher wrote:
I don`t bleeeeve it -Fed up you posted twice so I gave you 2 thumbs down . Damn your eyes ,you red under the bed
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On 10 Sep 2014 at 12:57pm Bully Beef wrote:
Mania - The Conservative share of Scotland was being lost in the 60s onwards so the period during which Thatch saved the country from the paradise of the 1970s ..ha ha ,can only be part of the story.
The growing reliance on the state as the largest cause of economic activity is clearly important but BBC Scotland and Labour in Scotland continued to demonize the English and the Conservative Party long after they were gone.
You cannot blame this or that government , there are many regions of the country which rarely get what they want
, the South East has never voted Labour and yet suffered Blair . 16 year olds voting in Scotland have spent most their lives under Labour and with an unfair voting advantage over other parts of the UK.
Manchester and other post industrial have more to complain about but they are English. This is about identity not economic measures.
I am not a Tory btw I am only concerned that England is not ripped of once again
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On 11 Sep 2014 at 9:54am Mania wrote:
Some good points. I don't incidentally disagree that something had to change in the 1970s but whether it had to be done in quite the way it was done... and with the attitudes to match... is a moot point. Whatever you think, Thatcher was divisive and did much to destroy an integrated British identity.
However, I'm still interested in quite why the Conservatives have such a terrible image in Scotland. I mean, there are still plenty of Tory seats in the North - Cheshire, Trafford, North Yorkshire, Northumbria, parts of Leeds. And the Midlands is also post-industrial but is much more balanced politically. Quite what did the Tories do that made SCotland hate them so much?
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On 11 Sep 2014 at 11:31am from heaven wrote:
They hate them because they breathe .
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On 11 Sep 2014 at 12:30pm Bully Beef wrote:
Its easy to forget who the opposition was in the 1970s. It was Arthur Scargill not Ed Milliband, and the unions had already pulled down the government once. Incidentally manufacturing output actually increased in the period,( employment did not of course ) anyway that's the past.
The death of Tory Scotland is rather an interesting subject .... I like your example of Cheshire .... the ponciest place North of Watford, (except perhaps rural North Yorkshire ) and I think the main answer is economic.
I wonder if some residual Jacobitism has a part in this , the Corries ( they of Flower of Scotland ) celebrated this romantic past .Another reason might be that the Unionsists left and came to London. The Population of Scotland has been under great downward pressure for a long time it was once a much much greater part of the UK. I can think of plenty more suspects , who knows...
Personally I wish them well . I feel the Scots have kept something that atomized homogeneous "multicultural" England may have lost. Their memory may be soaked in booze and dreams but at least they have one .
I am sickened to see the full weight of the political financial and media establishment crushing this movement in such a cynical mendacious and brutal fashion.
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On 11 Sep 2014 at 12:44pm Clifford wrote:
'Its easy to forget who the opposition was in the 1970s.'

For half the 1970s it was the Tory party. And then, of course, when the Tories were in power from 1970 to 1974 much of the opposition was from the right-wing of the party, particularly after Heath's u-turn. Interestingly times, in which a Tory government finally came to power in 1979 intent on Americanising Britain as far as possible with the crudist form of dog-eat-dog capitalism.
 
 
On 11 Sep 2014 at 2:43pm John Bull wrote:
Well said BB and Clifford
 
 
On 11 Sep 2014 at 3:03pm Bully Beef wrote:
Ahem...Clifford is re -heating his Bennite myths alone JB. The Conservative Party was actually left of the popular vote the time....
You know how these lefties like to make up history .
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On 11 Sep 2014 at 3:30pm Mania wrote:
"the ponciest place North of Watford"
You clearly haven't spent much time in the North Cotswolds, which last time I checked was north of Oxford. Cheshire ain't nothing on Stow-on-the-Wold or Chipping Campden. And Warwickshire just to the north of there - around Stratford-on-Avon - is not far off.
Scargill was an idiot, and an even bigger villain than Thatcher, which is saying something. However, I prefer to think of the 80s Conservative party as kicking off an unsustainable debt binge which we are still engaged in - ironic given the messages about victorian values and thrift. I notice you don't mention the Poll Tax and its early introduction in Scotland.
Another view might be that Scotland benefitted hugely from the empire - wherever you look in the administration of the empire Scots were hugely overrepresented - and now that's gone, the reasons for being together are less clear.


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