Lewes Forum thread

Go on, tell 'em what you think

Lewes Forum New message

We CAN reverse the decision to leave the EU.

On 21 Apr 2017 at 2:27am Dissident Opinion wrote:
"The president of the European parliament has said Britain would be welcomed back with open arms if voters changed their minds about Brexit on 8 June, challenging Theresa May’s claim that “there is no turning back” after article 50.
Speaking after a meeting with the prime minister in Downing Street, Antonio Tajani insisted that her triggering of the departure process last month could be reversed easily by the remaining EU members if there was a change of UK government after the general election, and that it would not even require a court case."

The new elephant sitting in the middle of the living room carpet! M. Antonio Tajani has come to tell the British electorate that they can change their minds. Many of them have already done so. They did not realize what the right-wing of the Conservative party were planning for us. They know some of it now, but the real reason for the election is that afterwards you will you will find that it is so much worse.Liberal Democrats, Greens, Tactical Voters, The Labour party (most of it), even the Conservative party (some of it), are horrifed at the immensity of arrogance, and lack of concern about what happens to everyone else.

Yes. Let us tell M. Antonio Tajani that we have changed our minds and want back IN. Let us also send Theresa back to to her tiny right-wing enclave, with her friends, where Britain still rules the waves and is not part of the community of nations.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 4:41am Zebedee wrote:
Hear, hear. Even if in Lewes it means holding a peg to your nose and voting Liberal Democrat.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 6:27am Newms wrote:
This while mess was sold on the basis of a prospectuis so mendacious and absurd that the Brexit we were voting is quite literally impossible.
The isse will be with us for tenm years and there isd absolutely no reaosn for remainers to give up any time soon.
In the end who knwos where we will be but it will not have anything to do with the current lies
On 21 Apr 2017 at 6:56am Hot Lips wrote:
2am?? Ate you lying awake fretting about it??
On 21 Apr 2017 at 7:10am Narrow minded liberals wrote:
*shakes head*
Nice troll @Dissident Opinion. It's quite amusing to think amongst liberals that they believe Brexiteers honestly have a right wing desire to return to Empire! Really? Britain rules the waves? No. We Brexiteers are well aware and conscious that this is neither desirable nor an option. There is nothing at all inconsistent with taking pride in becoming an independent nation once more whilst recognising that the future holds far more opportunity than being a member of the EU. Unfortunately it's narrow minded liberals who cannot see an alternative because they're so wedded to a set of morally bankrupt institutions that they're willing to go cap in hand back to the EU asking for more gruel. Unfortunately we now have many people in this country who consider being British an embarrassment and fear that leaving the EU they have to become apologists. I remember an Irish friend telling me how she's fed up with liberal English friends always apologising for things the British state had done.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 7:43am Andymac wrote:
Gosh, quelle surprise - a European apparatchik (if he's such an important person in the EU pecking order how come nobody - and I mean NOBODY - has ever heard of him?) pops up to say that he is keen that the UK, which pays a good chunk of the EU's bills, remains in the organisation. We might as well get used to the fact that this general election campaign will be peppered with EU 'representatives', some (like this guy) playing nice cop, some playing nasty cop, all of them trying to influence the outcome of the UK election in their own interests, a bit like they (and Barack Obama, and others) did during the referendum campaign. If people want to listen to them, fair enough, it's a free country, but I don't think they will achieve much other than to help confirm people's existing prejudices on Brexit one way or the other.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 8:32am Newms wrote:
In fact the idea that we could drop our real trading partners and go back to dealing with the Commonwealth in the way we did at the do the 19th century was just another Leave fiction. We do about as much trade with Ireland as the New Commonwealth and in any case such a reboot would involve decades of work. This was always a rhetorical device only which leave are now pretending was never serious
The Irish are of course at the front of the queue when it comes to begging us not to reignite the Irish question which , by the was is one of many such issues the EU has successfully contained since the war each of which might be a flash point. I say this when the real prospect of Nuclear war is once again with us elsewhere and we have quasi Brexit sabre rattling US president who drew inspiration form Brexit as have the French Fascists who Brexiteers are quietly supporting.
The idea that Brexit is a shiny new dawn is laughable, the vote was delivered by the 90% turn out of the over 65s who poll as socially conservative on every issue from hanging and flogging to ( above all )immigration of course and who have believed the endless anti-immigrant rubbished pumped out by the dog whistle racist wing of the Leave campaign. This cannot be forgotten or forgiven and the deep bitter divide in the country will not heal when a Brexit state built on bigotry counts half the country as “Not people”
One tries to be civilised about it but it isn’t easy when people are actively working to lose your neighbours jobs cost the country untold billions and destroy the fabric of services and are , it seems congenitally incapable of getting through a sentence without making something up
On 21 Apr 2017 at 8:39am Earl wrote:
@Narrow minded liberals. Well put. The crude dismissal of Leave voters as nostalgia-driven racists is lazy. The issues are far more complex and people on both sides voted for right and wrong reasons. There's too much black and white thinking.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 8:46am Curious wrote:
Paul. Do you have a job?
On 21 Apr 2017 at 9:12am Clifford wrote:
Paul: We're leaving. We had a referendum and Leave won. That's how it works. You keep telling us to vote Lib Dem. What will you say if after the election the Lib Dem candidate wins but the Tories say, 'No, we don't like that result, we want another vote'?
On 21 Apr 2017 at 9:42am Spike wrote:
Paul is employed by Conservative Central Office to discredit opposition views. He is also on a retainer from a hywhyte nationalist organisation to portray the attitudes of the chosen in a stereotypically
negative light. Let's face it, he is brilliant at his job!
On 21 Apr 2017 at 10:15am Newms wrote:

Curious – Yup and I am doing it now

Leave voters were not homogenous, true they included outright bigots and ultra Conservative constitutional obsessives ( small in number but loud in the media ) but many decent kind and well-meaning ordinary people of course
In U Gov surveys whilst Leave voter’s poll as socially conservative tended to be older I would say personally, the defining fact is not prejudice. The level of immigration is generally not liked but that’s nothing to do with racism.
The key fact was that the economic facts were not understood
90% of Leave voters thought they would be better off and astonishing numbers thought the lie on the bus was a reality. They simply did not consider the affect in trade the pound services and the true risks involved.
There is no surprise about that , it was ridiculous question to be put to a referendum in the first place and now end up out of a single market most people didn`t know existed and yet this is supped mandate
Comical maybe but also tragic as it will cost jobs security services peace in Ireland and the Union
Many leave voters will rightly feel as betrayed as the rest of us as the facts emerge
On 21 Apr 2017 at 10:40am The Old Mayor wrote:
Of course they'll take us back. We are a net contributor THEY WANT OUR MONEY !!
On 21 Apr 2017 at 11:41am @Clifford wrote:
Of course the Conservatives will not like the result and want another vote. And they will get one in 5 years time. Trouble is, Remainers won't get another vote in 5 years time, that's why they are making so much noise now. I'm not saying all Brexiters are thick (I know they are not), but it must take a special kind of stupid not to understand that!
Losing a referendum (or an election) doesn't mean losing you beliefs. What sort of weak minded individual would that make you?
On 21 Apr 2017 at 12:29pm Earl wrote:
It's a convenient myth that large numbers of Leave voters were gullible individuals, swayed by the figures on the bus. The truth is that few were swayed by the economic arguments, many expected the economy to suffer for a while, but they felt that in the long run, remaining a sovereign state with full control of its laws and movement of people was the better choice. If the EU hadn't been so intransigent about freedom of movement, I think the vote would have gone the other way.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 2:00pm Frak wrote:
So Earl, you're saying it was all about immigration then?
On 21 Apr 2017 at 2:10pm Earl wrote:
I think that was the main driver. Not the fact of immigration, but the numbers and lack of control. It made many people feel nervous that society was changing at a pace that wasn't sustainable, with increasing pressure on our infrastructure. I don't think the majority of people were motivated by racism - there's very little public support for repatriating recent EU migrants and most feel that they should have the right to remain here. That's not denying the existence of an ugly minority, but the Stoke by-election showed that even in the Leave heartland, people have very little appetite for the far right.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 2:18pm Narrow minded liberals wrote:
@earl absolutely, I am not sure how newms has quantified how many people were inspired to vote leave by the bus slogan. As far as I'm aware there's no published stats on that. Everyone I know that voted brexit were well aware that the £350mn for the NHS wasn't accurate, in the same way Cameron predicted house prices to slump, an emergency budget and even warning against world war three.

@frak, yes immigration within the EU was a major factor. Why? Because it benefits the wealthy English middle classes who like the idea of working overseas for a few years whilst putting the kids in international school, maybe a winter holiday home in the Alps or a second home in Provence.

But for the majority of hard working people it meant social change at home that was too rapid for comfort and the creation of an economic slave labour work force, often men leaving families and loved ones in parts of eastern and central Europe behind, having to take under qualified jobs in the UK serving costa coffee.
On 21 Apr 2017 at 6:42pm Clifford wrote:
@Clifford wrote: 'Trouble is, Remainers won't get another vote in 5 years time, that's why they are making so much noise now.'

So what do you think, that there shouldn't have been a referendum? The referendum showed a majority weren't happy to be in the EU. Do you think we should have been forced to remain in it?
On 21 Apr 2017 at 10:15pm Clifford wrote:
We owe a lot to UKIP. They will have my vote this time.

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