On 14 Aug 2015 at 8:57pm Leaving Labour? wrote:
So it looks like Corbyn will be the first leader to be elected on the back of huge numbers of Tories who joined just for that purpose along with few Communist Party of GB members. Even a Tory MP signed ffs ... presumably to highlight the joke this election is to the party I love. I am a socialist but I know what is electable!
On 14 Aug 2015 at 9:19pm xplorer1 wrote:
What's ironic is that a socialist is making us ask the real question - what's the Labour party for in the 21C? Seems to me he's doing us all a favour.
On 14 Aug 2015 at 11:06pm NL Dead wrote:
Because the country is turning left, the right wing press and elite powers within the party are bleating the usual lies and propaganda. Accept it! change is coming, to be voted in by ordinary members. Blair's influence is finally dying.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 12:12am Paul Newman wrote:
It is rubbish that large numbers of Conservatives have joined the Labour Party. It was a joke concocted by, amongst others Toby Young who has since explained that he hardly expected someone like Corbyn to be a serious candidate.
The new members may be of the socialist worker type but thatsa hardly new. I think the continued mention of the supposed Conservative wreckers is the justifiable shame felt by Labour`s higher echelons abou the sheer dumb arrogant childishness of their members .
To think this Party might have been running the country with thye SNP, it beggars belief.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 1:16am Newspeak wrote:
You'll be first against the wall come the revolution Newman
On 15 Aug 2015 at 6:57am Grafter wrote:
Corbyn and Trump, opposite ideology but both are upsetting their respective party machines. Neither apologise to the point and splutter brigade. Interesting how the magic antisemitism card has lost its power now and looks like a desperate smear.
There is something fascinating about watching how established politicians are attempting to deal with the situation.
Liz and Yvette are deploying their weaponised wardrobes against a man who appears to be dressed from oxfam and their obvious hunger for power contrasts with his many years of complete indifference to party lines.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 7:43am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I love the way the Tory-lite wing of the Labour Party is so indignant about this. Their attitude to the democratic process seems to be that democracy is a great thing as long as it produces the result that they want.
Corbyn is a breath of fresh air. It's refreshing to hear a politician who gives answers that sound as though they are genuinely what he thinks and believes, rather than sound-bites dreamed up by some PR wonk in party HQ.
A Labour party that wants nothing more than a watered-down version of Tory policies is a pointless entity and not an opposition in any meaningful sense.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 8:37am Socialist wrote:
At least Corbyn is turning the tide of SNP support back in Scotland. This wave of popularity might easily sweep through England too.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 10:39am Paul Newman wrote:
The branding of Blair as Tory Lite is absolutely preposterous. This was the man who turned the country form one where 37% of GDP was State to over 50%. Anyone who followed the politics of the time would recall PMs questions when on a weekly basis he was able to boast of vast increases in spending . We are still living with the consequences and with the Eastern economies stalling we may yet have to undergo serious austerity .
I can only suppose that the Iraq war is the reason for this bizarre estimation. Iraq was a war fought chiefly in support of the US who are the main strut of our defence strategy. The Conservative Party rigttly said they would vote for it with or without WMD the while reason for which was Blair’s internal battle with the insane anti-Americanism of his Party , the descendant of the equally insane support of the foul Soviet Union and the dumb inability to accept the collapse of Marxism .
Overall however I approve of Corbyn . I am sick of the lies with which Labour MPs pretend their Party of barely reconstructed Marxists and agitators are moderate Social Democrats . Polly Toynbee w quite openly appeals for less honesty about what the Party is hoping top lie to the electorate again.
Let the socialists stand under their own flag and see how far they get . Eventually a new opposition will coalesce of the Conservatives will imp[lode but the Labour Party is a construct of lies and can never be trusted to run the country again
On 15 Aug 2015 at 1:53pm Shameus wrote:
Concerning the Labour leadership the poisoning of any idea left of centre is well under way although I suspect has not yet reached its peak.
So far as Corbyn is concerned, can someone please tell me what is intrinsically revolutionary in calls to renationalise the railways? Something which, apparently, has widespread support amongst the public. Likewise the utilities, only too happy to thrive on state subsidies. Or, wanting the super wealthy to contribute toward the greater good - producing a more fair and therefore less "dangerous", less fractious society. Or, in calls for a proper living wage for people, and so on.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 2:15pm Ed Can Do wrote:
I would have thought that picking the candidate with the most popular support was a pretty good shout for competing at an election. It's nonsense to suggest that any of the other candidates are "More electable" if the vast majority of supporters of their own party don't want them. Despite what Paul would like everyone to believe, there is a fair bit of left wing sentiment in this country, the huge upswing in membership of the Green party prior to the election demonstrates this very well and all those people voting Green is a big reason for Labour getting so trounced. By electing Corbyn as leader the Labour party stand a chance of unifying the left wing voters in the country and providing both an actual alternative to Bullingdon politics and a meaningful opposition party. That so many people have registered to vote in the leadership election potentially represents a big increase in otherwise disengaged people showing interest in politics which of course the Tories don't want as their entire election strategy relies on vast swathes of the public not bothering to vote.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 2:40pm Paul Newman wrote:
Shameus – The death penalty remains popular , opposition to gay marriage is by no means as past as the media pretend and immigration is dislike by almost everyone barring a small self regarding anti National minority . Low taxes are universally popular and the suggestion they might rise to Nordic levels is not even on the electorally plausible menu .
In fact the policies in isolation that can said to have wide support are a meaningless smorgasbord of mutually contradictory convictions often held at only a shallow level . Any Party suggesting renationalising Rail and Utilities would signal a return to state interference generally and the failed model rejected by the Labour Party in the 80s with the rest of the population
Frustration with late running trains and a dire service ( a consequence of our unionised rail work force ) will not be cured by the of British Rail
As for taxing people richer than oneself this has never been other than hugely popular but as it would lose the exchequer money such ideologically driven right wingers Gordon Brown were never tempted despite years to do it .
I disagree with you the balance is shifting leftwards , none of the Labour candidates are right of Ed Milliband , the left of centre option himself and Burnham is entirely signed up to the Union`s agenda , having been left of Ed. If Burnham leads Labour into battle he will be the most left wing Labour leader since Callaghan and well positioned to deal with Sturgeon and Salmon .
On 15 Aug 2015 at 4:48pm Trooper wrote:
Have no fear troops "It will be allright on the night" Jeremy and Polly have said so. You are all on your way to CORBYN Paradise.
sweeties and goodies for all.
It is pathetic.Be afraid, be very very afraid.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 5:58pm mark2 wrote:
We live in a world where everything seems to have become a commodity with its own price - love, marriage, shelter, water, happiness, birth, peace; real value has been leeched from everything that we used to hold dear in order to make more and more money. Learning for learning's sake, thoughtfulness, kindness, ideals, modesty all gone in the name of profit.
Our very language,our words, have become distorted to fit in with market values. These 'Markets' themselves have become a monolithic personality with set likes and dislikes that we are held in thrall to. Open mindedness and curiosity are actively discouraged in our schools and universities - thoughtful subjects such as philosophy are seen as useless in a market driven world where education is seen to be simply about future job prospects.
Politics has lost any defining features. We essentially live in a one party system - a cigarette paper couldn't split centralist Tory and New Labour with their homogonized babble of techno talk that signifies nothing.
Then along comes Jeremy Corbyn who is decent and speaks real talk, who doesn't shy away from referencing values and ideals. He speaks of a half forgotten world through this talk - of real aims and decency and human truth. How sad that what once was seen as normal is now seen as freakish. And see how the masters of the universe mock and deride and try to take away his power.
I fear that it may yet all end badly; I hope it doesn't because he - or rather what he stands for - may be one of our last hopes. And it's not even extreme, just reasonable human plans for a kinder future. But Neo Liberalism has a nexus of power that is slowly strangling all possibility of change.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 9:12pm Mark wrote:
I think I'll ignore Paul Newman apart from mentioning that railworkers were unionised under British Rail and that unions in the day weren't hamstrung by legislation aimed at limiting the effect of industrial action. The suggestion that unions are at the root of current issues is silly. The causes for dramatic increases in real fare costs, reduced investment in infrastructure, appalling service must lie elsewhere. Oops I didn't ignore him and now I'm being called to the phone...
On 15 Aug 2015 at 9:21pm Paul Newman wrote:
British rail was a hated institution regarded as emblematic of the decline of the country Mark.
On 15 Aug 2015 at 11:14pm Mark wrote:
Try dealing in facts rather than venom Mr Newman.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 8:19am Metatron wrote:
Buckle up, here we go again!
On 16 Aug 2015 at 9:33am Paul Newman wrote:
I have discovered that the Labour Party does have data on registrations showing the entrants are for the most Part union members and ordinary Labour voters. In fact the entire scare story of infiltration by organised opposition of any kind is a red herring.
The truth is that the Labour Party is just very very left wing and so divided that it cannot be called a Party at all. The system of voting nfor the PLP has been quitely changed so it will not be obvious Corbyn has zero supprt amongst his own MPs .
That makes it even more obvious. This is new territory and like most Conservatives the idea of a Party with a list of demands that sound like a would be South American Dictator`s fantasy is not a good thing however unpopular they may be.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 9:58am Shameus wrote:
I would love to hear those "Dictator's" demands. As I said above, the poisoning of any ideas left of centre...
On 16 Aug 2015 at 10:12am Phil wrote:
I would agree with re-nationalisation of BR BT BG and BP as well as the water companies and any industries that can be grouped together and used to profit the common good but I would suggest one actual privatisation. The Royal family. Let those people run themselves. I don't think they need tax payers money any more.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 11:37am newspeak wrote:
Thats right, PN, the Labour Party is a bunch of rabid marxist loonies. It must be true becasue you've said it is.
By the way - remember how just recently the state took over the running of the East coast rail franchise. Turned a healthy profit and ran a better service,,,then guess what , was reprivatised. What would private capital do without state support and subsidy ???
On 16 Aug 2015 at 11:53am Paul Newman wrote:
This is a summary of the Corbyn Plan
A man who has described Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends” and is accused of associating with extremists? I think we can assume an anti Israel foreign Policy and an end to our alliance with the US
Abolish Trident (exit security Coucil)
Back off Nato
• End restraint on borrowing
• State control of economy by a National investment bank
• More taxes (supposedly only on those rich people )
• No cuts to welfare bill
• Trendy climate change costs loaded on
• Renationalise railways
• Renationalise the energy sector
• Rent control and state Council House massive spend
• More spending on NHS, end to competition for supply
• End to zero hours contracts
• More powers for Unions
• Equality stuff (?) vehemently multi cultutural , pro Islam
• More spending on education
• universal childcare,
• abolition of student fees
• funding adult skills training.
..I would point out that if I wanted to trash his record and past KAs I could do so far far more easily than by following his own ten point plan. what terrifiers me though is that even I had no idea the Labour Party no longer had an ordinary moderate back bone . I have been used to thinking that the Lewes trendiues were a silly and incinsequential minority that were laughably out of touch not only with m,ain stream poltics but with real Labour.
I was wrong and just suppse I am also wrong about the country and this horror might actually come to pass ?
Its a terrifying thought
On 16 Aug 2015 at 11:58am Paul Newman wrote:
Thats right, PN, the Labour Party is a bunch of rabid marxist loonies. It must be true becasue you've said it is.
No , they have said it is, I am absolutely staggered
On 16 Aug 2015 at 12:09pm Mark wrote:
We're probably already most of us familiar with Corbyn as per The Daily Mail, thanks anyway.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 12:58pm Labour member wrote:
That 10 point plan is not exactly inconceivable as a way to run the country Paul. We did it in 45 when we were in far more debt than today and that movement alone has accounted for the social mobility and prosperity that has benefited everyone who did not have middle/upper class parents at that time.
You have to look at history paul. Politics is always going to be a turning tide and unfortunately for the Labour/Conservative right; that tide is turning in a big way right now.
Also, people are screaming out for someone they can trust and are sick to death of smooth career politicians that they know will say anything to get elected and then do the opposite in power. Conservatives can get away with it because it is always obvious what their real agenda is but with Labour it's not so easy to preach compassion and then do it's opposite. This is where the other Labour contenders have come unstuck.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 4:14pm Labour member2 wrote:
Did anyone hear Andy Burnham on Jeremy Vine t'other day? He went on about how unfair the benefit cuts were and the privatisation of the NHS and it was pointed out by Jeremy that some of the privatisation had occurred while he was health secretary and that he had abstained from voting in the Tories massive round of benefit cuts! This was whilst saying how unfair the bedroom tax is!!
On 16 Aug 2015 at 7:16pm Mark wrote:
Part of why I'll be voting for Corbyn. I think that he would be capable of providing proper Opposition as the agenda of the first Tory majority government in two decades unfolds. And then someone more youthful and photogenic will pick up the reigns.
On 16 Aug 2015 at 8:04pm mark2 wrote:
Well, maybe Mark and Mark2 have more in common politically than one would have initially supposed....
On 17 Aug 2015 at 12:09am That's All Folks wrote:
Paul 'Loony Tunes' Newman with 7 to 8 replies to this thread already, its you that really are a Rabid Loony!
On 17 Aug 2015 at 12:19am That's All Folks wrote:
That's All Folks!
Watch the video »
On 17 Aug 2015 at 7:59pm Newell Fisher wrote:
If you strike him down he will only grow stronger...