On 18 Jun 2016 at 1:19pm Jonny wrote:
So with th appalling murder of MP Jo Cox, our PM has the perfect event around which to rally his troops. Watch this week, as her death is used to swing the public mood to vote remain.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 1:32pm Kettle Black wrote:
As opposed to what? You using her tragic death to advance YOUR agenda? As you are in your post? When and where does it all end?
On 18 Jun 2016 at 2:03pm Momo wrote:
Thanks for your exploiting this murder to help your cause. You have R Murdoch, D Trump and V Putin on your side, even David Icke and Priti Patel!
Britain first, eh jonny?
On 18 Jun 2016 at 3:59pm no no wrote:
Momo: As i'm sure you are well aware there are people on both side of the argument that people like and dislike - It is not a logical or sensible argument to suggest that you should base your choice on this alone.
A leave voter could say well Tony Blair, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Osbourne are on your side.
It is worth remembering that there is proud history and still is of campaigning against the EEC/EU from the Labour movement with people such as Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner and they/are certainly opposed to some of the people you mention.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 4:36pm Jonny wrote:
Not sure if my post has been misinterpreted, but I'll flesh out my agenda for you. Im opposed to hatred, whichever form it takes. I don't vote but I still have an opinion. Trump, Putin, Cameron, Corbyn, all the same to me.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 4:40pm Momo wrote:
I take your point no-no, there is indeed a respectable debate on the matter, but that is not what we are getting. Things are getting nasty & hysterical, violence is being preached, of the patriotic type, and, tragically, carried out. the foreign leaders mentioned must be loving it. Marine le Pen will be over shortly to help 'break britain free', funded by Putin doncha know. Sorry, fair point u made but these people are not for me. if it does all come down to gut instinct, they are all hardcore power hungry opportunists, so no thanks.
I remain, etc..
On 18 Jun 2016 at 4:52pm No no wrote:
Thanks for understanding Momo and I agree things are getting fever pitched but unfortunately the problem with referendums is that they are dividing by nature.
I may be wrong but I consider a lot of anger comes from that fact that:
a) we were taken into the common market in 1973 without the prior consent of the people.
b) we were then asked to vote on it in 1975 even though we were already in and then repeatedly assured that it wouldn't amount to no loss of sovereignty and that no new laws would be imposed on us.
The rest as they say is history, more treaties signed, more powers given away and more betrayals by a ruling elite - if anything the current mood only goes to show how dangerous it is to take away people's ability to change things peacefully through the ballot box.
Mine has always been a democratic argument and I came to the decision very early on that no matter how benign we make think the EU is it has removed democratic rights from the electorate, reduced parliament to a glorified county council and seeks to rule without accountability.
As Tony Benn said ' it is better to have a bad parliament than a good king'
While you may agree with the EU today, tomorrow you might not and that is a very dangerous position to be in.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 6:27pm Pete Manyata wrote:
In what sense was Margaret Thatcher or Tony Blair fettered in their actions? Thatcher managed to destroy the unions, steel and coal industries, decimate the stock of social housing, introduce neo-liberal economic policies, invade the Falklands, and the rest without the consent of the EU. Blair took us into a disastrous war in Iraq. The democracy argument seems specious to me - for a lot of Leavers it's just a question of immigration, immigration, immigration.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 9:10pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Immigration is a big issue, but not because we're all racists who want to go back to 1952. For me and many people I know, the concern is about the way capital uses cheap labour to drive wages down and the subsequent effect on rents, house prices and infrastructure. As an internationalist, I would like to see a reduction in immigration accompanied by an ethical foreign policy that addressed the poverty in other countries. I know that there is an ugly side to the immigration issue, but don't assume that all people who worry about it are bigots. The Socialist Worker Party fights racism but also objects to the way the free movement of people has been misused by corporations.
On 18 Jun 2016 at 11:22pm Mavis wrote:
Well put No No !! "The EU has reduced our Parliament to a local county council !! ". ABSOLUTELY. , and more worryingly they seem very keen to accept and assume that role !!
On 19 Jun 2016 at 1:05am Tony H wrote:
Yeah, like East Sussex County Council decided to invade Iraq with 500,000 deaths since 2003. Dream on 'Mavis'
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:09am amy wrote:
Well it did do its best Mavis to sell the people's purse in the form of St Anne's for a knock down price to a religious sect. And very nearly succeeded. (And still says although mistakes were made it was still good practice!) But a minor point in the ongoing thread I agree.
Earl of Lewes - a great post. I love the way George Osborne uses the threat of a 16% reduction in house prices if we leave the EU. I should have thought that would be a good thing for young people, tenants, the town of Lewes, the survival of London as we knew it, and the country as a whole. Just shows up
the nasty values these opportunists espouse.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:40am Clifford wrote:
Earl of Lewes: a very clear and well-argued post.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:47am Blatant Lie wrote:
George Osbourne obviously knows FA about economics. He states house prices will fall if we leave. He also states the Pound will fall if we leave.
Well George, if the pound does fall then UK property will be cheaper and thus more attractive to foreign investors than it already is. What do you think will happen to prices then?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 11:45am Clifford wrote:
Blatant Lie, do you think interest rates will go up if the pound falls? What value do you think a post-brexit government would prefer the pound to be at, relative to the dollar?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 11:58am Mavis wrote:
@Tony M. Well once the EU assembles its own army, as it has a mind to, trivia like that will be taken away from indivual countries and unelected nobodies will go to war on our behalf !! How do you feel about that then ?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:51pm Clifford wrote:
Mavis wrote: '... once the EU assembles its own army, as it has a mind to, trivia like that will be taken away from indivual countries and unelected nobodies will go to war on our behalf !!'
What, as opposed to elected nobodies, do you mean? When was the last time you had a choice about which war some idiot at the top wanted to involve you in?