On 16 Mar 2018 at 12:03pm Malling man wrote:
With two universities on our doorstep and being only an hour from London, Lewes has a high number of residents who work in the higher education sector. The proposed attack on HE pensions will have a direct impact on many people who live in Lewes. In response to previous posts on this forum, it isn't about having a sense of entitlement - it is about working hard to ensure security for the future. Many people affected are not high flying professors earning huge salaries, but are just regular Lewes folk trying to get by. The CEO of the Universities Superannuation Scheme at the centre of the current industrial action took a pay rise of £82,000 this year, from £484,000 to £566,000. How that can be justified at a time when the USS is in turmoil is a mystery. I stand in solidarity with those whose pensions are under attack.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 12:11pm Local wrote:
Pah.
The world has changed.
The university sector is bloated and flabby, enjoying all the upside perks of the private sector with none of the downside risks.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 2:26pm Nepotism wrote:
A Prof I know gave jobs to his wife and kids. Rotten system
On 16 Mar 2018 at 2:29pm Destroying Angel wrote:
The gateway is closing and the talisman is not recovered. The lane leading to the church is safe for those who seek.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 3:41pm Death Cap wrote:
We are just a bunch of fun guys
On 16 Mar 2018 at 4:37pm Andymac wrote:
Depends on whether or not you think that every taxpayer in the country (including pensioners without the luxury of a guaranteed final salary pension) should subsidise the increasingly lengthy retirements of some public sector employees. If you do. you'll support the strikers. I don't.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 5:39pm bored wrote:
@Nepotism
This happens in the private sector too. It's not caused by the sector, it's caused by the individual.
@Andymac
When someone reaches pensionable age they no longer contribute NI to the government so pensioners are subsidising nobody. We have £4 trillion in unfunded state pensions being stored up due to the increasingly lengthy retirements of the general population which is not being addressed. Could argue that means pensioners are actually being given too much at the moment.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 5:50pm Andymac wrote:
Bored - the question of National Insurance (a tax by any other name) is neither here nor there: non-public sector pensioners are liable to both indirect and direct tax, therefore they contribute to the common public pot, so they will indeed ultimately be helping to funding public sector final salary pensions. The point you make about unfunded state pensions is a valid one, but not the point at issue here.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 5:54pm @bored wrote:
Pensioners pay tax on their income from their pensions if it exceeds the personal allowance, so we are still helping to support the welfare state, the military, and all other public services, including other people's pensions. There is no distinction between NI contributions and income tax in reality. They don't get paid into separate funds.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 6:03pm @Andymac wrote:
Is it really valid? The government gets all the pension contributions paid by public employees and spends it all . If it was invested properly it would then be fully funded. They soend it, promising to pay it back when public service workers retire. Are people really suggesting that Her Majesty's Government should break that promise?
On 16 Mar 2018 at 6:20pm Andymac wrote:
@Andymac - not entirely convinced that your point is accurate, but let's just assume that it is. If the striking university staff now move from a defined benefits scheme to a defined contributions-type scheme, their existing rights (as I understand it) will be protected until 2019, so everything in the past is safe as far as they are concerned. If they move to a Defined contribution-type scheme from here on, then that part of their eventual pension will be based on their contributions (together with the contributions of the employer). If as you claim, those contributions are sufficient to fully fund a pension which will equate to the same as their final salary scheme, then why do they have a problem with it? Simple fact is that they know they need help from the public purse to fund their very generous final salary scheme, beyond the total of what they and their employers have contributed in the past. They think they are deserving of this unquantifiable retirement subsidy from other UK taxpayers. I don't. I don't have anything against them as a group, but I don't see why they are particularly entitled to this public subsidy, which most others don't receive.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 6:55pm Pensioner wrote:
It’s also worth noting that these strikes aren’t happening at every university. Many university workers (including those at Brighton Uni) are members of the local government pension scheme rather than the USS. Their pension scheme was degraded some years ago. I don’t remember many USS members protesting at that time.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 7:23pm Spurious wrote:
Phase 2 of the great socialist dream~ Nightmare in Debt St. The long game sounded so good we all fell for it. See you in the gulag, comrades.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:03pm Whatifitwasyou wrote:
The point is that this is unfair and doesn’t comply with an implied contract that people have used to plan their retirement.
One of my friends is a lecturer, has worked very hard for 30 years to get there, and the revisions to the scheme will cost him £10000 a year off his pension.
Ten thousand pounds.
As I said “what if it was you”?
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:15pm Local wrote:
From what to what?
£50k to £40k? Or £20k to £10k?
I suspect I know the answer...
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:21pm Thegardener wrote:
Errrrrr I’m not sure the word lecturer should be used in the context of working hard. Yes they might all be ‘clever’ but lecturing is a cushy number compared to just about any other teaching role. I’ve worked in schools and universities, I know what goes on.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:23pm Whatifitwasyou wrote:
@local neither of those figures are correct, but that’s not the point. How would you like it if you were in your mid-fifties and your employer told you that in five years your pension would be £10000 less than you had expected and worked hard towards for 30 years?
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:27pm Lecturer wrote:
I spent many years working as a university lecturer (although never as a member of the USS scheme). My colleagues were generally very committed and intelligent people but I really couldn’t describe it as “very hard” work. Although things are changing it’s still a fairly good life. I’ve got sympathy for anybody who pays into a pension scheme and has the terms changed before they reach retirement but any scheme has got to be affordable.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 8:50pm Whatifitwasyou wrote:
@Lecturer point taken - but with respect it’s not the point. This is all about financial planning and after 30 years employment I think most people would assume that they wouldn’t have a massive change forced on them with only a few years notice. How hard people work is immaterial as it is in any other pension scheme. It’s all about fairness.
On 16 Mar 2018 at 9:17pm Andymac wrote:
Whatifitwasyou - given that your lecturer of 30 years will have their existing rights protected until 2019, how do you work out the £10k difference in their final pension? Would be interested to see your arithmetic on that one. In addition, millions of people over the last 20 years or so have had to move from defined benefits to defined contribution schemes (with no choice in the matter). Why is this group of academics so special?
On 16 Mar 2018 at 11:55pm @Andymac wrote:
Promises should be kept. Public employees accept being paid less than they might earn in the private sector because they believe in public service, but also because they are assured of a reasonable pension. If the pension is to be fully funded by their contributions, they are entitled to expect much better pay. Will that happen? Obviously not.
On 17 Mar 2018 at 8:30am Worker wrote:
The idea that public sector workers are paid much less than the private sector is complete fantasy. The majority of ‘standard’ public sector roles these days on on similar pay to the private sector and also have much better holiday, pension and other benefits.
On 17 Mar 2018 at 9:49am @Worker wrote:
This may be true at the lower end of the scale, but certainly not for the professional and administrative staff.
On 18 Mar 2018 at 9:47am Facts and figures wrote:
Worker and @worker
Are you able to provide evidence to support your assertions?
On 18 Mar 2018 at 10:04am David wrote:
It used to be true that public sector workers got paid less but it hasn't been for a good ten years. The private sector has closed most defined benefit schemes, I lost mine 15 years ago. It is the price of our longer lives.
On 18 Mar 2018 at 4:39pm @Facts and Figures wrote:
You have to compare for equivalent jobs and equivalent qualifications. In the last ten years public sector pay has been more or less frozen or reduced, and since the 2008 crisis private sector pay has risen faster.
This is from a 2017 BBC report:
Check it out here »