On 23 May 2016 at 9:43am pn wrote:
One of the silliest argument s put forward by the Brexiteers is that tariffs within the World Trade Organisation are now so much lower than they were in the 70s that we get little benefit from being part of a Free Trade area .
I am sure we would all like to thank the EU for its work in bringing peace and prosperity to the world through trade ( yes it has , comparatively speaking ) but does this mean we might as well be out
No. Firstly no tariff trade barriers are still prodigious for weak economies but more importantly we are reliant on services .
You may have noticed then when they are not promising a dynamic low tax tiger economy or a communist utopia the Brexiteers also say we will threaten the EU by not letting them sell us BMWs.
Not within the WTO we won`t unless we are also leaving that ! It will make little difference due to aforesaid low headline tariffs .
For us , however the story is different. Margaret Thatcher was the first to realise that Britain’s specialisation in services – not only finance, but also law, accountancy, media, architecture, pharmaceutical research and so on – makes membership in the EU single market absolutely essential. Such “products “ need open markets not just low tariffs , passporting of compliance for example .
So where does that leave our bargaining position? Nowhere and for those who doubt this it is actually happening now.
Due to our tenuous grip on EU membership. the UK is already losing influence and the irony is that the WTO will leave us even more defenceless trying to go it alone
Remember its not just words its jobs , lives interest rates and growth and funding for public services . We all have a stake in this so let’s not get fooled by the plain silly arguments invented by Gove UKIP and co.
On 23 May 2016 at 11:07am 8 miles from home wrote:
£8372.000.000 per year given to the EU.
On 23 May 2016 at 11:54am In the gutter wrote:
£8.3 billion per year is about 0.4% of GDP. Virtually all forecasts suggest GDP will drop by much more than that if we left the EU. Now, of course, these are forecasts and the reality may be different.
There are of course other potential good reasons to leave the EU, I just don't think saving a fraction of a percent of GDP on the membership fees when the overall economy will be hurt is one of them.
On 23 May 2016 at 1:26pm Lewes Voter 3 wrote:
Another poll today shows a massive lead for leaving the EU once undecided voters are added up. You'll never see these results reported in the mainstream media but we now know how thoroughly discredited that's become. There isn't one person in my neighbourhood who will dare speak up to me in favour of remaining. We will never kow tow to the country that bombed my family out of a home and steals our money today. I am right and you will all see it soon. Vote leave and save the NHS or take the consequences.
On 23 May 2016 at 1:44pm In the gutter wrote:
I think it's a stretch to suggest that Germany "steals our money". Firstly, we give it. Secondly, Germany puts in more than the UK.
To suggest there is a link between leaving/remaining in the EU and "saving the NHS" is somewhat hyperbole. While TTIP seemingly poses a grave threat, it's likely that any free trade agreement between the UK outside the EU and North America would be just as bad. Moreover, the politicians who are campaigning most vocally for us to leave are the ones who would love to privatise (i.e. destroy) the NHS.
As for the polls, can you point (i.e. provide a link) to a non-partisan poll that suggests we're going to vote to leave? The most recent YouGov polls suggest 44/40 for Remain/Leave. Inferring the ultimate intentions of undecided voters is at best subject to massive uncertainty.
Again, I'm not strongly for or against leaving the EU. I care about facts as much as they exist.
"There isn't one person in my neighbourhood who will dare speak up to me in favour of remaining." possibly says more about your aggressive attitude than it does your neighbours political opinions.
On 23 May 2016 at 2:11pm Leaver wrote:
There is clearly no sound reason for leaving the EU on economic grounds as we will clearly be much worse off.Nor can the argument be predicated on some supposed loss of sovereignty as we make the majority of our own laws and we already pool power with many other supra national organisations like NATO. No, there is only one valid reason for leaving the EU and that is a deep and abiding hatred of foreigners.I have a deep and burning hatred which consumes me day and night.I despise foreigners in the same way that I loathe Gays,Catholics,the disabled,the unemployed,lefties,left handers,red heads,blacks,Asians,Muslims,young people,loud music,women that won`t keep their mouths shut and boss me about,students,any one that works in the public sector,and anyone that earns more than me .That is why I am voting to leave and I am sure that there are enough people who think like me in this country to get us out of the EU in June.VOTE LEAVE.
On 23 May 2016 at 2:30pm In the gutter wrote:
"Leaver" - Yet another pointless comment which has become typical of this campaign and forum.
While I lean towards remain from a stability point of view I see that our membership of the EU effectively limits our ability to make partnerships with other countries, particularly those that we (i.e. citizens of the United Kingdom) have a closer cultural/historical connection, and in many cases debt for past injustices.
On 23 May 2016 at 3:47pm Bert wrote:
There isn't a single bookmaker even close to thinking we'll leave. Not even close. They have a big sample size and wouldn't be offering the 4/1 they are if it was even a slight risk to them.
While I'm intrigued which neighbourhood "Lewes Voter 3" has been polling so efficiently I don't think it'll be representative.
On 23 May 2016 at 3:57pm poller wrote:
He's right everyone I know is voting leave. They are massively underplaying this.
Secondly due to leavers being more passionate and motivated to vote the remain needs to be at least 10% ahead for it to be equal which is not happening.
He's right about the NHS vote remain at your peril.
On 23 May 2016 at 5:28pm Stato wrote:
Everyone you know is voting to leave? You must know some right thickos.
On 23 May 2016 at 6:24pm Just Bob wrote:
If the government really knows that it is beneficial for the country to stay in the EU, why didn't they send an experienced grown up negotiator to Brussels to thrash out a new deal on trade, immigration, security and sovereignty.
Regardless of which way the referendum goes, l believe it is not legally binding and could easily be a waste of time and money if the government choose to stay whatever.....
Out or in we have blown our chances of being taken seriously in the future by being subservient to Angela Merkel and company!
If the EU continues to increase it's influence in the UK we could eventually dispense with the House of Lords and Parliament (and make a few hundred more unemployed.). The United States of Europe could spend the running costs, salaries and expenses saved on converting the buildings to enhance the UK's housing stock.
Oh silly me! I forgot, in a dictatorship there would be no place for a Royal Family so there would be many more buildings ripe for conversion too which would mean more cheap labour needed, upping immigration.
I think on the basis of these thoughts I could now be one of the undecided....maybe
On 28 May 2016 at 11:40pm Old Maurice wrote:
I am voting to leave and that's definite. We must regain control of our destiny and more. Not kow-tow to bureaucrats in Brussels who don't know Britain like Britons (racists - the majority in my opinion - included). We'll still be in the EEC and trade will be the same or better.