On 8 Apr 2010 at 9:45am Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
Can someone please let me know what bridge Clifford the Troll lives under? I'd like to pop by and see him and see if he can answer questions or will he just run away.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 10:15am Clifford wrote:
Poor old Elvis. People disagreeing with you really seems to be a problem, doesn't it? Tell me one thing - are you PAYE or self-assessment?
On 8 Apr 2010 at 10:26am Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
I just thought the idea of a forum was to discuss ideas and have a healthy debate, not to disappear up your own 'arris in a cloud of smugness and sanctomony. I'm on PAYE. Do you think you can respond to any of the questions I asked you?
On 8 Apr 2010 at 10:32am Clifford wrote:
Thanks Elvis. You'll see my answers on another thread. To repeat - having a go at the little people is not an 'idea' or a 'debate'. It's just the usual gutter politics that signifies an inability to confront the real issues.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 10:48am Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
It is a real issue, benefit / disablity / incapacity fraud & claiming through idleness costs this country a huge amount of money. It may not be on a par with the Bank bail outs but it is something that is closer to home and cannot be ignored and we can do something about it, like calling the national benefit fraud helpline. I assume your question about PAYE was to see if i was self-employed and had infact ever done any cash in hand work and not declared it? A lot of little people can have a more devestaing impact than an elite few, just ask Gulliver. So everyone who costs this country money is fair game.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 12:13pm Ed Can Do wrote:
If you think a few people supplimenting the pittance you get from benefits with a spot of covert working is a more severe threat to the national economy than fat-cat bonuses, MP's stealing money, companies using pension reserves to pay dividends to old-money shareholders and the hilariously wasteful system of local government we have set up in this country then you're either a banker or MP yourself or you watch too much tv and have started to believe those government ads.
Come to think of it, a massive government propaganda campaign and a snitch phoneline, sounds more and more like the Nazi Gestapo the more you look at it.
If the government really cared about stopping benefit fraud they'd devote some resources to it, rather than relying on a few rubbish tv ads and a nark's phoneline. Fact is, it's people doing cash in hand work that keeps the economy ticking over. The money that's lost in tax revenue is obviously less than the cost of effectively stopping it, otherwise they'd stop it. Much like how the government aren't really that bothered about smashing major crime rings, since to legitamise the money they make it needs to go through a proper company, thereby paying tax on the proceeds. I imagine the collective drug dealers of the nation contribute more to the public purse when they launder their cash than Tesco do, since being a "legitimate" business they're able to funnel all their income off-shore and not pay tax on it.
The world really isn't as black and white as the Daily Mail would have you believe, Elvis. There's a lot to be said for forming your own opinion rather than believing everything you read.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 12:16pm Layabout wrote:
Clifford, please don't refer to us layabouts as "little people". That's bullying.
On 8 Apr 2010 at 12:36pm Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
If all the unemployed fiddled this country out of £200 each a year, would that be a big enough problem for you lot not to turn a blind eye to?
On 8 Apr 2010 at 6:29pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
EtG and C, where dooooo you get your handbags?
On 8 Apr 2010 at 9:22pm Old cynic wrote:
I was made redundant a while ago and actually found it very difficult to get basic benefit. I didn't see the dole office full of spongers and scroungers. I saw plenty of people made unemployed through no fault of their own, some very poorly educated people mainly young men in need of some training, some really chronically ill people and some young mums. In my very humble opinion, as a person who was actually unemployed, the majority are folk fallen on hard times doing their best to find work. Simply pointing a finger at people on benefits and blaming them for the countrys ills is foolish misinformed and lazy.
On 9 Apr 2010 at 8:09am expat two wrote:
But all the unemployed aren't fiddling this country out of $200 each a year. And those that are, are more than likely providing something cut price with the full connivence of their 'employer', who are therefore at least 50% responsible.
I had a Lewes landscaper quote me some work once, "$250, or $200 cash in hand no invoice, if you know what I mean".
(apologies for lack of pounds sterling character)
Is there a phone line for reporting people fiddling their tax returns?
Is it well advertised?
On 9 Apr 2010 at 8:40am expat two wrote:
Another point, now I've thought of it, suppose all the benefit fraud was stopped overnight thanks to snitches, what do you suppose would most likely happen to all that recouped money? take your pick;
Further tax breaks for high earners and businesses
On 9 Apr 2010 at 1:24pm Ed Can Do wrote:
It would have to go on extra police, in order to deal with the crime wave as hundreds of people making ends meet by doing a bit of cash in hand work and not mentioning it to the government turn to more serious types of crime instead. Drug dealing is a pretty popular option but I'm sure a few would take up mugging or burglary.
I'm not trying to condone benefit fraud of course but one has to be realistic about things and in my opinion, diverting resources to a snitch-on-your-neighbours phoneline and some stupid adverts in order to halt what is really a minor problem is a waste of money in itself and even if it were successful would cause more problems than it solves.
On 9 Apr 2010 at 5:42pm Sherlock wrote:
Also, Expat Two, the amount of benefit not claimed by people entitled to it exceeds the amount fraudulently claimed. And, of course, tax evasion far exceeds benefit fraud but is winked at because our legislators are more likely.... well, you know the rest.
On 9 Apr 2010 at 6:37pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I'm surprised to hear you're on PAYE, Elvis. Your view of the state of the nation led me to believe you sat around watching Jeremy Kyle all day and needed to get more. Perhaps it's the Daily Mail or Express you read on the way to work that gives you such a blinkered view of the world.
The layabouts/spongers/chavs etc debate gets on my threepennies, I'm afraid. A life on benefits isn't cushy, a single person under 60/65 gets £64.50 a week to live on (after housing costs and council tax are met). For most people, nearly half of that is gone on gas, electricity and water, leaving precious little for anything else beyond the basics.
Of course, people with disabilities get more, but I'd like to meet some of these people who get shedloads of wonga by pretending to have a bad back as, in my experience, the system invariably errs on the side of the DWP. I've seen people lose at tribunals because they have a learning difficulty and don't understand the questions, even when they have the support of a solicitor. People with bi-polar disorder rarely get DLA because of the intermittent nature of their illness, even if they spend great chunks of their lives barely able to function. The new benefit replacing incapacity benefit is based on a positively arcane scoring system that sets people up to fail and people I know with quite severe and enduring mental health issues have been deemed fit to work.
I'd rather a few people scammed the system than have lots of people suffer trying to work and making themselves ill in the process, resorting to crime or going hungry.
On 10 Apr 2010 at 8:02am Clifford wrote:
What an excellent post ACT - that's the way to deal with people like Elvis.
On 12 Apr 2010 at 2:54pm Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
It would be if it was relevant to the issue I was raising about people who would rather claim benefits than work. I was saying that fraudulent claiming was an issue but as you lot seem to have either not read the threads properly or just want to get on your soap boxes then carry on.
On 12 Apr 2010 at 4:07pm Mr Change wrote:
Elvis you said, after having a pop at Clifford, was...
?It is a real issue, benefit / disablity / incapacity fraud & claiming through idleness costs this country a huge amount of money'.
...Fraud comes in many guises, including, as you suggested by including the words disability and incapacity in your post, there are people who pretend to be disabled or lie about restricted physical abilities in order to fiddle the benefit system, in that respect ACT's post is perfectly relevant, I don't doubt this dose happen but surely you have to be a very sad or desperate individual to go to such lengths. Also prime time adverts cost a fortune, and in this case it is tax payers' money funding them! I would rather they spend my taxpaying money on an advert aimed at MP's who spend our taxpaying money on buying second homes, new furniture, taking all their friends out to dinner and all the other things they no doubt do with our money, If you want to make a fuss about wasted money I suggest you pick the rich bankers, MP's or stock brokers don't pick on the poor, unfortunate people who keep the country running!
On 12 Apr 2010 at 4:40pm Elvis the Gunslinger wrote:
The key point I was raising was that of fraudulent claims and the resentment I have of the people that turn down work because they simply can't be bothered. A lot of people on here don't seem to understand that, I'm not having a pop at those who can't work or those that are made redundant and are actively looking for new jobs, it's the like of Clifford and his silly presumptuous comments that just goes to show the sanctimonious nature of some of the contributors on here. And as far as condoning crime, of which "scamming the system" undoubtedly is, I think it's a terrible stance to have, you might as well say to someone that it's ok to steal stuff as long as the MP's are still putting in dodgy claims. It also makes me laugh that people are comparing it to the banking world, saying it is ok and that I should write about the bankers instead, why is that? Why is is preferable to attack banks and politicians instead of all issues that cost this country money?
On 13 Apr 2010 at 8:00am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
When there's a shortage of jobs, I really don't have a problem with people turning down jobs and leaving them free for people who really want them. I doubt if many people would really rather have just £64.50 a week to live on than go to work.
There are real issues surrounding the "poverty trap" though, and imo no-one should be wrose off in work than out of it. That desperately needs to be sorted out.
On 13 Apr 2010 at 8:24am Mr Change wrote:
'I should write about the bankers instead, why is that?'
IMO Simply because I belive these people cost this country a great deal more money than people fiddling the benifit system, in what ever way that is, at least they have some justification since they are poor, unlike the bankers/MP's etc.... That is not to say I am condoning crime, but for me it is about getting our priorities right.
On 13 Apr 2010 at 5:34pm me wrote:
surely the fact that banker conveniently rhymes with a popular slang term is just too much of a coincidence
On 13 Apr 2010 at 5:38pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Does anyone know how much revenue is lost by letting "non-doms" live here (virtually) scot free?
On 13 Apr 2010 at 11:14pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
Does anyone know how much is lost through huge corporations paying tax accountants huge amounts to save them even bigger amounts in avoiding paying company taxes ?
Incidentally - Of course the Tory 'policy' on not paying increased NI contributions plays well with business - they won't have to be paying out more to the government to help cut the deficit. But they are perfectly happy for the public sector to lose jobs and have budgets cut because of the massive public debt. Can anyone tell me what bankers and businesses are volunteering to do to help get their country out of debt ?Debt that was added to consiuderably by bank bail outs and trying to stop businesses going bust. Cos if they don't want to contribute they must be made to contribute and that means increased TAX. Time to bite the bullet, Tory boys.
On 14 Apr 2010 at 8:55am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Fab post, BB.
Can anyone explain to me why, if you buy and sell, say, fruit and veg, the profit on your sales is income and taxable at 20/40%, but if you sell property or shares for profit it's capital gains and taxable, I think, at 18% tops?
There's also a much bigger tax-free allowance on capital gains, which people get in addition to the normal personal allowance.
On 14 Apr 2010 at 9:20am Mr Change wrote:
Go Girls....!!! So refocus Elvis, get you head out of the clouds and think about the real issues that are ruining this country and costing us money, there are at least half a dozen reasons in the 2 posts above!