On 20 Jan 2009 at 1:12pm not from around here wrote:
I was doing some decorating in my flat the other day and wanted some 150 watt light bulbs to clearly see what I was doing. So off I trotted to B & Q only to be told that they don't sell these anymore along with the 100 watt versions! There are no 'energy efficient' bulbs equivalent to a 150w bulb making it twice as annoying.
"Okay" I said to the pleasant lady who was helping me, "do you have any halogen work-lights so that I can see what I'm doing?" Apparently not as they have all sold-out due to the lack of any alternative!
I know that this lunatic idea is only voluntarily being adopted by many stores ahead of the legislation banning the 'evil' 100W light bulb, but why? Why can't I as a consumer be trusted to decide these things for myself?
On a similar subject, I've just been told that a flat I rent out to tenants now has to have an 'energy efficiency certificate' at a cost of £115. Will prospective tenants decide not to rent my flat if it's not efficient enough? Of course not, so it is just another piece of useless legislation thrust upon us by the green lobby (which ultimately I will try to pass-on via the rent)
End of rant!
On 20 Jan 2009 at 1:59pm Frak wrote:
Actually as a tenant, i would take notice of a poor energy efficient house, as it would be me having to pay extra in heating etc just because a landlord is too lazy to insulate it. i understand your point in terms of lightbulbs, but they are completely different matters.
On 20 Jan 2009 at 2:09pm Sandal Twitter wrote:
I understand where you are coming from. It's a pitty that they were out of halogen bulbs to serve your particular need. I come from a place where it was encouraged to get the energy efficient alternative 20yrs ago when they still were very expensive - we are talking about £25 a unit as compared to the 1.50(?) today. However most people did switch not because for their love of the environment but to save a massive amount of money. It's not about that you can't be trusted but apart from saving you money they are good for the environment if you think that about ten of the energy efficient bulbs (equivalent to a 100W bulb) use as much energy than one 100W bulb. And they are good for a struggling national grid. We already have around two (very little) power cuts in Central Lewes a week as it is. There are reasons why things are phased out. E.g. Asbestos is a damn good fire insulation but it turned out not to be so good for your health. I'm very against being told what to do and would be the first to speak up if I thought that banning the bulb is a sinister plot but it's not. I hope non-rechargable batteries are next on the agenda.
On 20 Jan 2009 at 2:21pm not from around here wrote:
You might 'take notice' of it but would you refuse to rent a property you liked at the right price because it had a low energy rating? I would find that hard to believe unless you had an identical property in the same street at the same rent with a better rating. By the way it has nothing to do with being lazy at all - it has to do with cost and in one way or another that cost will be passed on to a tenant. Either directly or via the more discreet way of spending less on the white goods supplied to the tenant - which in turn means that as a landlord I would look to save my £115 energy efficiency charge by perhaps supplying a cheap washing machine that is less energy efficient or perhaps by less decorating and cleaning between tenants.
Frak you are entirely missing the point - this is about making free choices and those choices being taken away from individuals by legislation.
By the way landlords are people just like you who happen to own property and would probably not be property owners if they were lazy.
Just so you don't get the wrong idea I make every effort to ensure that my tenants have a clean, warm and comfortable flat and go well beyond what is required by law in that regard (which I CHOOSE to do) - I just object to legislation that compels me to what I'm already doing or to spend more money.
end of second rant!
On 20 Jan 2009 at 2:44pm not from around here wrote:
Hi Sandal,
You make some good points. I already use energy efficient lamps where I THINK it's appropriate. But don't forget the current generation of energy efficient lamps contain mercury which is released as mercury vapour when they are destroyed at the end of their (admittedly longer) lives.
They use less electricity than tungsten lamps and so we should leave it up to the individual to make a choice between a light they prefer (many prefer the warmer light of traditional lamps, including me) and one which is more efficient.
By the way there is no easily available energy efficient equivalent to the 150W bulb.
Is it a plot? Well possibly not but it does give the EU an unprecedented ability to interfere in day-to-day life and the choices we normally take for granted - so it is a bit sinister in my opinion. I think you are saying that it is in the common good? But who decides what is in the common good? Should the EU legislate on other daily choices we make?
The most important phrase in your post is that you came from a place where you were 'encouraged' to use energy efficient lamps but not compelled.
As a footnote - on the day B&Q were unable to help I had to DRIVE from Brighton to Lewes and back again to pick-up my halogen flood light to continue with my decorating. Not too good a result for the environment I'd say.
On 20 Jan 2009 at 2:48pm not from around here wrote:
Sorry - should have replied at the bottom..
Hi Sandal,
You make some good points. I already use energy efficient lamps where I THINK it's appropriate. But don't forget the current generation of energy efficient lamps contain mercury which is released as mercury vapour when they are destroyed at the end of their (admittedly longer) lives.
They use less electricity than tungsten lamps and so we should leave it up to the individual to make a choice between a light they prefer (many prefer the warmer light of traditional lamps, including me) and one which is more efficient.
By the way there is no easily available energy efficient equivalent to the 150W bulb.
Is it a plot? Well possibly not but it does give the EU an unprecedented ability to interfere in day-to-day life and the choices we normally take for granted - so it is a bit sinister in my opinion. I think you are saying that it is in the common good? But who decides what is in the common good? Should the EU legislate on other daily choices we make?
The most important phrase in your post is that you came from a place where you were 'encouraged' to use energy efficient lamps but not compelled.
As a footnote - on the day B&Q were unable to help I had to DRIVE from Brighton to Lewes and back again to pick-up my halogen flood light to continue with my decorating. Not too good a result for the environment I'd say.
On 20 Jan 2009 at 3:50pm Frak wrote:
I wasn't saying that you NFAH were lazy, just that some landlords can be. Tenants often have to put up with poor insulation, things breaking down etc etc and landlords often forget that they are providing a service, not doing someone a favour. I understand what you mean by saying there is often excessive legislation, but if it were a choice how many landlords do you think would just not do it to the detriment of the tenants. And back to your point about whether I would just 'take notice' or do something about it, then either I would walk away, or would argue on price and from experience most properties are not at the 'right' price.
On 20 Jan 2009 at 5:34pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
To digress slightly, we have a light that takes 25 watt candle bulbs. They don't seem to make a low energy one small enough and the lowest wattage halogen bulb I can find is 28 watts, which I suspect might melt the fittings.
Anyone know where I can get very small low energy or low-wattage halogen bulbs? I'm loth to replace the light fitting, it went up before we last decorated and the ceiling will probably need repainting if we change it.
On 21 Jan 2009 at 8:55am Sandal Twitter wrote:
ACT, have a look here. 7-9W srew and bayonet candle bulbs in different colours. That's just a quick search so I imagine others stock them too. Large range, no minimum order and the postage and warranty are decent.
www.thelightbulb.co.uk/product/list.php?cat=127&green=1
Fluorescent Bulbs (Old) vs. Incandescent Bulbs (New) Conversion Chart
11Watt = 40Watt
13Watt = 60 Watt
23Watt = 100 Watt
40Watt = 150Watt
It seems that Watt increase of a fluorescent bulb is non-linear to the output of its incandescent equivalent. E.g. If 11W is 40W, 22W are not 80W. Therefore I don't know what 7W are euqal to but I imagine around 30W? The people at the above website will be able to tell if you call I guess. You must not use a 28 watt bulb in a 25 watt fitting as it draws more power but THINK it should be safe to use a 7W as it draws less power and produces less heat. It's a commonly asked question no one seems to know the answer to. Again, the people at the above website will be able to tell.
NFAH, there are 150 watt equivalent bulbs 
. Point taken about Mercury apparently they are working on it. It's not the ultimate solution but a step in the right direction. Time for Tesla.
On 21 Jan 2009 at 9:00am Sandal Twitter wrote:
Err, Fluorescent Bulbs are the 'NEW' ones.
'You can't change people but you can change their bulbs.'
On 21 Jan 2009 at 10:53am jonnyboy wrote:
Tesco has an offer on energy efficient bulbs. 98p each or 5 for 40p!!! There doesn't seem to be any limit on how many you can buy.
On 21 Jan 2009 at 1:13pm Taff wrote:
Seeing that these fluorescent enrgy saving bulbs cannot be used with a dimmer switch are they that enrgy saving?
On 21 Jan 2009 at 3:38pm Sandal Twitter wrote:
There are dimmable ones, a common misconception!
www.thelightbulb.co.uk/product/list.php?cat=361
PS: I don't work for this company but think they should pay me.
On 22 Jan 2009 at 11:36am jonnyboy wrote:
As energy efficient bulbs contain mercury they must not be put in general waste. The only recycling point in the area is at Ham Lane. Would it not be possible to include them in the kerbside recycling scheme?
On 22 Jan 2009 at 8:04pm Musher wrote:
The government doesn't subsidise the price of flourescent bulbs here in Norway, I spotted one in a very dusty box in a hardware shop........£34!!!!!! Amazingly enough they are not all that popular.
How much tax gets spent on these "cheap" bulbs in the UK?
P.S Taff dimming a light bulb has almost no impact on the amount of electricity used.
On 22 Jan 2009 at 9:29pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Blimey, Musher, shall I ship you a load over? With the pound at an all-time low, I smell a great business opportunity. Every time we change energy suppliers we get sent another 4 free.
On 22 Jan 2009 at 9:39pm Spinster Of This Parish wrote:
Who needs lights when you have aurora borealis?
Enjoy Musher (wish I was there)
On 23 Jan 2009 at 1:20pm Taff wrote:
Hello Musher,
How are you all?
Seeing that the dimming circuit chops (reduces) the peak to peak voltage of the supply it must reduce the power consumed. just as importantly though is the soft start it creates when switching the supply to the bulb, hence they last longer and need replacing less frequently. Another reduction in a manufacturing process.
Take care mate, maybe see you soon?
On 23 Jan 2009 at 5:14pm Tess Coen wrote:
Hello
I bought 5 new style energy saving bulbs in Tescos today for 40p.
No, that's not a typo. Special offer or something.
On 24 Jan 2009 at 7:44am sashimi wrote:
Sandal Twitter, thanks for the link to the dimmable low energy bulb site. Pricey though £12 plus VAT and postage. Still, she who must be obeyed says we must have them.
On 30 Jan 2009 at 2:44am pochemukers wrote:
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On 6 Feb 2009 at 7:14pm cloister wrote:
This business of "low energy" bulbs is a load of tosh.
In my previous house I had a small workroom where the lighting was 2 X 150 watt incandescent bulbs in low-level (from the floor) up-lighters.
This had the useful byproduct of HEATING the room to a comfortable working temperature. (There was no other heating in that room).
Do away with the "inefficient" bulbs? - resulted in the use of a fan heater!!
Whatever way you look at it, "inefficient" bulbs add to the heat gain of a reasonably well insulated room, meaning the central-heating (or whatever) doesn't have to work quite so hard!
I am obviously open to being corrected, but my point was already proved in that last house.
cloister