On 26 May 2014 at 1:22am Lloyd wrote:
In Lewes District here's the breakdown for main parties 2014 (2009) Turnout: 29,183, 40% (32,450, 43%)
UKIP: 9,459, 32.4% (6,133, 18.9%) +13%
Tory: 7,201, 24.6% (8,813, 27.2%) -3%
Libdem: 3,824, 13% (7,540, 23.2%) -10%
Green: 3,723, 12.8% (5,080, 15.7%) -3%
Labour: 3,651, 12.5% (1621, 4.9%) +7.5%
On 26 May 2014 at 3:24am Innocent Bystander wrote:
Shame about Green & Labour. Personally i find them rather more convincing than Norman's crew.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:10am Gah wrote:
Wonder what the vote was in Lewes itself,which is of course only a small party of the district.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:27am The Old Mayor wrote:
Clinging desperately onto Lib Dems probably, though the rest of the country has given them up.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:36am Citizen wrote:
Dunno about Lewes but the South East UK region (as defined for the EU) returned four UKIP MEPs (inc Farage), three Conservative, one Labour and one Green.
No Lib Dem and (thank heavens) no excretable Donna Edmunds.
Funny to think of all those Europe-hating UKIP MPs having to take part in an organisation they despise. Very sad to see that they'll hardly ever turn up to vote and the few times they do it will be only to vote against 'any' new regulation. And to think how handsomely we are paying them to sideline us in Europe!
Its going to be fun to see them corrupted by the salaries and expenses and to watch the backlash begin. It's only a matter of time.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:51am The Old Mayor wrote:
When Clegg goes, I see Danny Alexander is being touted as his replacement. That'll be great ! Even more of a wet rag and full of platitudes. No great personality there then, but a typical LibDem I'm afraid. They really are a type.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:59am oilbarron wrote:
Citizen. The people have spoken and that's what matters. Everything else you say is just noise . UKIP will vote against any new regulation you are quite correct. That's exactly what the majority want. I agree with you on a backlash, but of course that will happen, that's politics and has been with us for a thousand years and will continue for another thousand. The fact of the matter is the electorate are fed up with the EU, immigration etc etc and they have spoken very loud and clear. Have a good day
On 26 May 2014 at 9:17am Citizen wrote:
Voting against the protection of endangered wild animals purely because it is new legislation is stupid, but is exactly what UKIP MEPs did. Voting against protection of our environment in general is also dumb, but exactly what UKIP do. I'm sure many from all political persuations can agree that excessive free movement of people across borders can easily lead to social destabilisation but UKIP throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Still, interesting times ahead?
On 26 May 2014 at 9:49am oilbarron wrote:
Citizen. agree Interesting year ahead I think.
On 26 May 2014 at 10:12am Historian wrote:
About 2 thirds of the population didn't even vote. Which is absolutely disgusting. Every woman should have voted regardless considering what lengths their predecessors went to get them the vote in the first place. Maybe the vote should be taken away from them, then see them moan ! It all goes to prove the general apathy and disinterest in the policital scene, thinking their vote doesn't count and won't matter.
On 26 May 2014 at 6:08pm GhostBike wrote:
"Citizen. The people have spoken and that's what matters. Everything else you say is just noise . UKIP will vote against any new regulation you are quite correct. That's exactly what the majority want. "
Well that's just not true. The latest poll of 6,000 people showed that 42% would vote to stay in the EU, and 37% would vote to leave. Clearly not a majority, nor the biggest slice of the vote. A lot of people who are not completely anti-EU are voting UKIP, as far as I can see.
Check it out here »
On 26 May 2014 at 6:12pm None of the above wrote:
Who cares? As long as all scumbag Tories are kept out of any position anywhere everything is fine and dandy.
On 26 May 2014 at 8:49pm Boris wrote:
Bastian, everyone was talking about Net immigration on Thursday lunch time and I think you'll find that two hundred and twenty thousand more people arrived in the UK than left it.
Your bank theory is ridiculous when it comes to this election. The Romanians weren't being used as a scapegoat but an example. The fact that they and any other member states citizens can come into our country freely and work or claim benefits is the problem. I don't blame them for wanting to better themselves but we can't cope with open immigration. How do you expect your beloved NHS to cope, why do you think there are so many young adults out of work a housing shortage I could go on.
You can't have it all ways, I know you want to tax the hell out of the rich but that won't work, look at France. The obvious solution is to cap immigration and tighten our boarders and look after what we've got and who we have.
On 26 May 2014 at 9:52pm Dog breath wrote:
What about France?
On 27 May 2014 at 10:04am Pompous old Git wrote:
Your reference to the collapse of the post war German economy and the Weimar government is interesting.The Nazis were a revolutionary party of the left during this phase of their development ( The very leftish Strasserist wing was later annihilated ) and they did indeed blame the bankers, the banks were, of course identified with the Jews.
In this country the Black shirts, who were equally anti bank , proposed that they were nationalized ,a suggestion that has once more done the rounds in lefty circles.
I really feel that the media and its fawning followers attempts to portray UKIP as Fascists is utterly wrong headed. UKIP is founded on a wish to retain the British Constitution whereas Facsim has always wanted to overthrow such institutions.
UKIP is extreme conservative opinion broadly understood that has been dis-enfranchised by the political class, the very antitheses of revolutionary left wing Parties, Nationalist or otherwise.
That said , they are often rather silly in my view.
On 27 May 2014 at 10:05am Town Flyer wrote:
The thing is that 18,399 voted against UKIP. Only 9459 voted FOR UKIP.
We have so many other bloody 'main' parties that we split our own vote. Ridiculous system.
On 27 May 2014 at 11:29am barcombe lad wrote:
If we really want to see what UKIP is about let's see how Farage teams up with pals in Europe this week , he can choose between extreme right Le Penn in France, but she thinks he is too left wing and she favours Jaddick whose nazi credentials are strong. Farage is also courting Vilders from the Netherlands, but he prefers Le Penn. All have some fascination with the paramilitary Golden Dawn et al.
In the meantime we now must focus on the national election if UKIP should win and look forward to Lewes returning to the 11 plus and grammar schools (lets hope your kids don't have to go the sec mod; the total privatisation of the NHS and of course more cuts to public spending, so I will see you as I trudge the miles from Barcombe to Lewes. Pip pip
On 27 May 2014 at 11:35am Detector wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, Pompous Old Git is the once omnipresent (round these parts, at least) Paul Newman.
On 27 May 2014 at 11:59am norman is toast... wrote:
Interesting results and (on a partisan note) what a depressing picture it paints of Lewes district; once again suggesting that the people most concerned with immigration are those least affected by it.
Anyway by my reckoning if the same drop off in vote for the Tories and the Lib Dems takes place next year, the Tories will have a healthy majority in lewes (based on LD vote halving as against Tories dropping by about a fifth).
This ignores the likelihood that a large part of the UKIP vote will switch back to Tories for the general election - I think polls suggest half of the UKIP votes will desert UKIP for a general election, and most of those in our area will presumably go Conservative. Safe to say that the Tories will pick up at least as many from UKIP as the Lib Dems.
It's common enough for parties in power to take a kicking mid-term but when you're up against the other party in power I can't see this applying.
In short I think Norman is in real danger here and hope he can come up with something better than his line for the last 4 years, namely 'if you don't vote for me you'll get a Tory'.
On 27 May 2014 at 1:00pm Maundering old Idiot wrote:
One of the reasons that the UK does not fit well in the EU is that Conservative opinion on the Continent is very pro Europe ( as it was here in the 70s, opposed by Labour ).
If you think about it for countries whose experience of democracy has been a descent in to the worst sort of populism , the end of National democracy is no big deal and anyway it acts as a sort of surrogate empire , for them.
This leaves anyone who is neither a Liberal or a socialist with rag gang of often bizarre allies.
It is hardly reasonable to blame Farrage for the fact the European Democracy doesn`t work for Britain , he would agree with you.
On 27 May 2014 at 1:12pm Not the droid wrote:
What is perhaps most interesting about UKIP is that it shows how tribal the left is compared to the right. The right are ditching the Tories to vote UKIP while whatever Labour do to show they are no longer left wing a load of tribal, dyed in the wool Labour supporters will still vote for them. Unfortunately, that keeps the discussion in the country centrist and stifles debate about alternatives to austerity and other ways of improving life for the majority.
On 27 May 2014 at 3:08pm BritishEuropean wrote:
It's hardly fair to be so dismissive of democracy and its history in our neighbours - given that places like the Netherlands and France were pioneers when we still had the property qualification. That's before we get to the Swedes and Danes. It's difficult to see Britain as a leader in democracy before the first world war.... especially given the millions we ruled who had no say in Westminster.
As was said upfront, the majority of people in this country remain in favour of the EU and our membership of it, whatever the assumptions of people on this forum. That this remains true is remarkable given the coverage in the media.
On 27 May 2014 at 4:26pm Historian wrote:
What has Norman Baker really done for Lewes ?
On 27 May 2014 at 5:33pm bastian wrote:
detector, you could be right there ( I mean correct0.
Please go and read over your history text books for "how the 2nd world war began".
this is no longer a left and right issue, this is possibly a knife edge that we have been on the blade of before.
On 27 May 2014 at 7:29pm Sked it on wrote:
Correct, Citizen, 'no excretable Donna Edmund'.
However she was fifth on Ukip's list for the south-east.
If nutty nige wins a Westminster seat next May he'll stand down as an MEP and be replaced by the next Ukip candidate not already elected.
Which would at least give her four years of euro-trough-snorting.
On 27 May 2014 at 8:24pm Border Control wrote:
'If voting made any difference, they'd make it illegal'
On 27 May 2014 at 9:10pm He who knows wrote:
@sked it on.
Heaven forbid that the Donna Edmunds could ever reach a position of influence. As Farage has already told her to shut up you'd hope that he would engineer it that she'd not be next in line.
I have it on good authority that UKIP MEP Roger Helmer got very fed up with her during the time she worked for him and found her irritating. She's not as 'in' with the leadership as she likes to think she is.
On 28 May 2014 at 8:52am Not the Droid wrote:
If she did end up elevated to MEP if Farage became MP then we'd be in the odd position of her being a UKIP District Councillor without having been elected as one (she defected from the Tories) and an MEP without having been directly elected to that either.
On 28 May 2014 at 9:04am MNN wrote:
Probably the only way she's likely to be able to climb the slimy political pole
On 28 May 2014 at 11:39am Clifford wrote:
Historian wrote: What has Norman Baker really done for Lewes ?
On that basis we can ask 'What has any MP really done for any constituency' and automatically vote them out at each election. I assume you're a Tory. By the way, in one of your earlier posts you said 'disinterest' when I think you mean 'uninterest'. Disinterest is what a judge is supposed to display when hearing a case in court.
On 28 May 2014 at 1:12pm Both pompous and boring wrote:
France ..ha ha .The National that gave us political extermination Fascism and, if you wanted one phrase to sum up their 19th century, the coup d`etat. It was by such means, for example , that Napoleon 3 got rid of what Parliament they had and replaced it with a gerrymandered universal Plebiscite handing him all power.
Meanwhile Britain gradually developed a true democracy which as a mental tour of modern Africa would tell you is only partly delivered by voting rights. It requires ingrained institutions.
As for the supposed media bias , oh puleeez. The BBC has been waiving the blue and gold flag since it got us in and the only Paper to support UKIP is the Express. Au Contraire as those cheese eating surrender monkeys would say.
On 28 May 2014 at 2:31pm Not the droid wrote:
BBC bias has been obvious. 4 times as much coverage as parties that have more councillors, more MPs and (until the election) more MEPs. How is that not a bias? UKIP popularity is in part cause and effect from that because it made their message pervasive as if there was no other protest choice. When Question Time repeatedly has UKIP representation but almost never SNP, Green, Plaid Cymru, then you have to wonder. Even Sky News took the time to point out that UKIPs vote share has dropped over the past 12 months and that the election was a great night for the Greens, and they also reported on SNP complaints about media UKIP bias, and they are hardly the most independent news organisation...but far more balanced reporting than the BBC in this election.
On 28 May 2014 at 3:13pm Lilburne wrote:
Indeed. There are, for example, more green councillors than ukip councillors.
Anyway hold Pablo. You're doing a good job channeling Daniel Hannan by the way. I share your admiration for British stability but it is worth bearing in mind that while the French were toppling governments we were busy ruling a third of the world without any electoral mandate.
However I find it difficult to admire Britain's current democracy. The UK is perhaps the most centralised state in the western world, and until more powers are given to cities and regions it is hard to see it as being as democratic so countries where decisions on taxes, education, etc are made at more local levels, not at Whitehall.
The other problem is the incredible secrecy obsession of the British state, which when combined with the lack of a system of checks and balances creates what is effectively an elected dictatorship. British people would be amazed at what government is forced to make open and transparent in Germany, Sweden or the US. The secrecy if Whitehall is on a level with the former eastern Europe. Until that changes i can't see Britain as the democratic beacon you imply it is. EU members such as seen, the Netherlands, and Germany are far more truly democratic than the UK.
The quality of British democracy was rated by transparency intern
On 28 May 2014 at 7:29pm Boris wrote:
The reason UKIP got a lot of air time is because the other 3 main parties made the whole campaign about Ukip. As for the papers, well even The Sun was slinging mud at UKIP and it's candidates.
When it comes to the Greens I think they have got to drop this climate change mantra and concentrate on what they are really about, Socialism. Their vote share would increase massively by taking the left position away from the Labour party.
BBC bias is shown with it's Question Time audience where it seems that you are only aloud in if you are a card carrying member of the Communist party.
On 2 Jun 2014 at 1:23pm PLUMPTON LAD wrote:
Citizen - you got your facts wrong when you claimed there was no Lib Dem elected. In fact Catherine Bearder MEP was returned for the Lib Dems in the South East.
And the 23% vote share for the Lib Dems in Lewes District was far higher than most places across England. Added to this is the fact that this is the entire Lewes District result, including places like Peacehaven and Telscombe which are not part of Norman Baker's Lewes constituency and where in recent elections the Lib Dems have not had a massive share of the vote. I suspect if you just looked at the wards in Norman Baker's seat you would have a stronger Lib Dem vote, certainly a lower one for Labour, Cons, and UKIP as Peacehaven polled strongly for UKIP last year; plus Labour and Cons are both putting work and energy into those wards (plus Telscombe) as the Brighton Kemptown constituency in which they sit appears to be more of a Tory/Labour marginal.