On 26 Jul 2010 at 5:29pm Pint of Harveys please wrote:
Anyone have any information why they seem to have just stopped ? Closed?
Any one have any inside info or any gossip at all?
Was a good place, seems strange that it has just closed.
Pint of Harveys Please 
On 26 Jul 2010 at 5:33pm Down and Out wrote:
Very strange, given that they seemed to have more people in than many Lewes pubs. Was really the only pub in town that catered for a certain sub-species of twenty-something, so it seems a bit sad to me. Good jukebox, too.
On 26 Jul 2010 at 5:46pm Ken wrote:
Well it seemed to be the only pub with customers in throughout the day, obviously orientated around 20 somethings as you say but always seem to welcome all comers
On 26 Jul 2010 at 6:47pm steve watts wrote:
The guys just had enough of being screwed by Enterprise Inns (lovely people )
On 26 Jul 2010 at 9:24pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
So has it definitely closed ? There was loads of straw and plastic glasses outside this morning on the pavement so wondered what had been going on.
Shame.
On 26 Jul 2010 at 10:56pm TDA wrote:
New management soon I believe, previous chaps wanted to move on. Was a great pub under them, wish them good luck in the future.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 6:14am Gundreda Boy wrote:
The straw bales were because the bailiffs came - they took everything else, including the beer.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 10:59am jrsussex wrote:
Sounds like yet another great shame for the licensed trade. Bailiffs are not allowed to take everything, they must leave that which you need to make your living. e.g. A carpenter may go bankrupt and they take what the can but they cannot ouch his tools, without them he cannot work, those are the rules. I imagine the previous licensee either just gave up or was poorly advised. The 1st lesson is never take the word of a bailiff or anyone else connected to the debt recovery business. Never allow them to enter your property, you open up all sorts of rights to them, once you have allowed them in the next time they can force their way in. Make them stand on the doorstep.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 1:31pm king cnut wrote:
jrsussex what are you on? If you read the news you would know that the rent and beer increases have forced them to give up. And in any case you're a little off on your bailiff law. What action would you take if you were owed money eh? Have you ever tried to recover money owed such as rent deposit or claim against an uninsured driver?
Don't blame the bailiffs, blame the law-makers who make it difficult to get your money back and expect the bailiffs to work with 19c law.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 1:58pm jrsussex wrote:
K c - I have great knowledge of why the licensed trade is in the position it is, it all started in September 1988 with the Beer Orders, and in any case I made no mention of that. Neither did I say that those owed money should not be able to collect it, I was simply pointing out that there is legislation in place to ensure that the Rachman's of this world do it legally. Based on what I said, concerning bailiffs, where exactly was I "a little off"?
I really do think that some people should ensure they are able to read and interpret posts before rushing into criticism of them. I would have hoped that my advice was good advice for those who get into debt, bear in mind that most people don't go into insolvency by choice. Often they work very hard and long hours to avoid it but, unfortunately, fail.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 4:25pm king cnut wrote:
You were 'a little off' with your advice on tools of the trade. In any case, trade debts are not so strongly protected.
I was trying to point out that if everyone refused to pay their due debts then where would we be? Bailiff law is old fashioned and needs reforming. Is it fair that a bailiff can easily walk into a pub to seize goods whereas a dodgy director can hide behind law designed by successive governments to protect failed businessmen (like themselves).
I just hope Lewes doesn't see anymore pubs closing. Its what its famous for.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 5:36pm sashimi wrote:
King Cnut, I think you'll find the law on bailliffs is on the Coalition agenda. Not sure what they have in mind. But the abuses of the thugs who operate disgracefully in the name of the courts must be addressed. Let's hope they look at regulating clamping at the same time.
On 27 Jul 2010 at 5:40pm Down and Out wrote:
"I just hope Lewes doesn't see anymore pubs closing. Its what its famous for."
I've always thought Lewes doesn't do too badly for pubs - certainly compared to a lot of other smallish Home Counties towns with a fairly middle class demographic. The town where I grew up in Berks had about 18 when I started drinking and I think it might be down to 6 or so now. But it would be a terrible shame to see the Lansdown go when it has the potential and the location to succeed. Someone mentioned Enterprise Inns further up. Is this one of those places where the tenant landlord is contracted to buy supplies at extortionate rates?
On 27 Jul 2010 at 6:07pm jrsussex wrote:
It is called THE TIE. You sign a lease for the pub, you then have to pay a high rent (in most cases) and have to purchase your products, beer etc, from the landlord, they are either Pubcos (property companies that own pubs) or brewers. There is a lot going on at Governemnt level at present to help the pub trade and one of the things under attack is the tie, fingers crossed things will alter for the better.
Weatherspoons is an example of how independent landlords should be treated, although Weatherspoons are a managed chain of pubs, their directors, who negotiate large discounts, at least pass it on to the customer whereas the pubcos and brewers do not pass their discounts onto the licensee so he cannot pass it onto his customers. Hope that is clear, in short it is a bloody disgrace and it is why you have so many pub closures.
On 28 Jul 2010 at 9:30am Pubber wrote:
JRS, I agree with you to some extent in that the way the tie has been operated by the pub companies has not been acceptable, but this has been known for a long time. The question then is why do paople still sign up to Pubco leases which have these poor terms in them? If people were to refuse to take on a pub under those conditions then the Pubco's would be forced to alter the terms to ensure that they could find new leaseholders. I think there is also a risk that if the tie is abolished then great damage will be done to smaller brewery based companies which rely on the tie to ensure a market for their beers.
On 28 Jul 2010 at 8:40pm jrsussex wrote:
Pubber - You are absolutely correct in what you say. The big question "Why do people continue to sign up leasehold pubs" It has been asked within the licensed trade for a number of years, ever since the wheels fell off in terms of operating licensed premises. The most popular answer in the trade is that a dream of the average Englishman is to run their own pub so they will take anything on.
What they should do first is show the previous accounts to an accountant with the question "Is this a financially viable business proposition" and secondly show the lease to a solicitor and ask for his opinion on it. Having the two opinions should assist them to form an honest opinion as to whether to sign or not. Simple isn't it? However time and time again, when the opinions advise against the lease the potential licensee, they say "Oh I think I can make a success of this pub so I will go ahead and sign", this despite locals telling them that the pub has had several different operators in recent years. There are literally hundreds of people who, even in these dark times, will sign anything just to get a pub.
On 29 Jul 2010 at 8:32am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
An accountant friend has licensees among her clients, and some of them have leases where their rent goes up if their turnover increases. She says the breweries have them by the gonads, and unless you can buy a pub freehold it's a recipe for heartache and hard labour.
On 29 Jul 2010 at 9:44am jrsussex wrote:
AC-T - To be fair there are many successful cases of lessees an tenents in pubs so it is not all bad news.
You have however hit on one of the very unfair pionts of leasing a pub. You are absolutely correct about the rent reviews (normally every 5 years). If for example you take over a poorly operated pub with a low barrelage and subsequently work hard with your wife/partner and turn it round to become a sccessful pub with an improved barrelage your reward will indeed be an increase in your rent to match your new barrelage. You will receive little if any credit for your achievement, other than a slap on the back congratulating you for selling more of their beer, but the rent will still rise accordingly. I personally know of no other trade/profession that rewards you good efforts in such a way. The trade has been trying to change this matter for years, entirely without success.
On 29 Jul 2010 at 10:31am Pubber wrote:
JRS, I agree with you entirely about people taking on a pub when they should listen to the professional advice. Unfortunately, that also makes me somewhat less sympathetic towards then when it all goes wrong. It is a tough world and when you make mistakes you must live with the consequences. I speak as someone who chose not to run a leasehold pub but bought a freehold pub. Even in this somewhat privileged position it is a very tough business to be in and so I am surprised by how many leaseholders manage to keep going.
On 29 Jul 2010 at 7:55pm jrsussex wrote:
Yes again you are correct, I was always freehold in my places but bear in mind not everyone can afford to buy their chosen pub outright. That's why leasehold is the alternative but nevertheless many of them are their own worsed enemy in that they do not seek professional advice and those that do often ignore it. Heartbreaking all the same.
On 30 Jul 2010 at 12:13pm Feline wrote:
Isn't the problem that there are alot of people who have a rose-tinted cosy view of running their own pub - rather than the reality of what very hard work it is. The same with shops. I know a couple who have set up a deli (not in Sussex) and can't believe what hard work it is. They thought it was going to be a gentle retirement money-spinner!
On 30 Jul 2010 at 3:36pm Pubber wrote:
You are right to some extent Feline. Few people realise how much hard work it is (when I bought mine I expected it to be hard work but I have to say even I underestimated the effort that is required). However, the problem is that in many cases of Pubco leased pubs the terms are such that it does not matter how hard the licensees work they are going to find it difficult to succeed. There are many who argue that there needs to be wholesale changes to the leased pub system (and there is certainly scope for some change). However, there are many free of tie pubs that are struggling as well and so it is not all about the Pubco's. What is needed is a cultural shift back towards people using pubs as community hubs. Pubs offer a lot more besides somewhere to drink and eat and we need to promote those aspects so that people realise that although they pay more in a pub than in a supermarket they are getting something for that extra expenditure.
On 1 Aug 2010 at 5:52pm SAR wrote:
That's what I call refreshing news. Let's hope it stays shut forever and the Lamb is next.
On 3 Aug 2010 at 1:30pm Lewes Cinema wrote:
JRSussex, pubs are not the only business to have their expenses linked to their turnover - cinemas also pay more to the film co's the more tickets they sell - although if we do badly we still have certain fixed costs to pay as well.
Most businesses are much harder to operate viably than the average person could possibly imagine. For tough trading terms look no further than the cinema business.