On 6 May 2010 at 6:09am SHS wrote:
"UK deficit set to overtake Greece's" - headline today in the FT. Remember how labour always said they had no money (especially for new railways), how 'sustainable' meant charging for services that were previously paid for by taxation, etc etc. The suddenly it found trillions of pounds to 'rescue' UK banks, banks which are again making billions in profits and where the average salary is over £200k.
If we are to stand any chance of not becoming the next riot-prone Greece, we desperately need a change of govt - anything but labour. Let's give the Lib-Dems a chance and reward Norman Baker for his work. Incidentally Norman Baker was the only MP who actually came and knocked on my door in person, to talk face to face.
On 5 May 2010 at 6:59am MC wrote:
It's not just a new government we need. Both Labour and the Conservatives have failed us miserably over the last 25 years. We need a new system of government, one that promotes concensus, discussion and co-operation, not confrontation and the constant promotion of outdated class-derived dogma as encouraged by our current first past the post system that constantly fails to represent the views of the majority of the population.
On 6 May 2010 at 8:23am 'ere be monsters wrote:
Couldn't agree more MC.
On 6 May 2010 at 9:39am sashimi wrote:
Hear, hear, MC
On 6 May 2010 at 1:17pm Clifford wrote:
MC wrote: 'outdated class-derived dogma'
At what point exactly did there stop being classes? And I mean the use of the word class to denote the division between the minority of owners of the means of production and the majority of workers who toil to keep the minority wealthy?
On 6 May 2010 at 3:34pm MC wrote:
I feel the existing (mainly) bipolar first-past-the-post system encourages and sustains the class system. On the one hand Labour for the working class, on the other Tories for the toffs. PR would allow the involvement of more parties that are not based solely on class lines.
Hope that's clear.
On 6 May 2010 at 3:39pm Clifford wrote:
So what you're saying MC is that classes do exist and the concept is not 'outdated'? The 'working class' and the owners have different interests. The tragedy is not that, as you say, Labour is for the working class and the Tories for the toffs but that both parties (all three if you count the LiB Dems) put the interests of the employers, the bankers and the wealthy first.
Hope that's clear.
On 6 May 2010 at 4:14pm Down and Out wrote:
Clifford - it's not that the issues to do with rich / poor or employer / employee have gone away, it's just that 'class system' is a really dumb, inarticulate way of looking at the issues now.
You can have site labourers who are their own companies but earn sod all - are they 'boss class'? And then people like me: a wage slave for an owner of the means of production, earning three times the national average or whatever. Am I 'working class'? The old definitions no longer have any meaning.
On 6 May 2010 at 4:36pm MC wrote:
Well I agree with you. But I don't think the electoral system should encourage the continuation a bi-polar class system. I think that class lines have blurred in recent years and it'd be good if this trend continued. I'd like it to be much, much easier for people to traverse social strata and prefer a more egalitarian society.
Me, I'm all for the Robin Hood tax (www.robinhoodtax.org.uk)... but I think the proposed rate of 0.01% is far too low. It it were higher and we dumped Trident and pulled out of the various stupid wars we're involved in we might manage a even keel again... and without the soon-to-be-with-us pain.
I hope that's clear too. :^)
On 6 May 2010 at 5:35pm Clifford wrote:
MC - I don't see how an electoral system can encourage something that the electoral system exists to represent: the fact that there are different classes based on their relationship to the means of production. Superficial class differences have, of course, altered over the past 50 years - bosses and workers calling one another by first names are one example. But the real underlying class system still exists, however it is dressed up. Workers and bosses have, in the end, opposing interests - as the never-ending battle over profits versus wages demonstrates.
On 6 May 2010 at 6:24pm MC wrote:
Like many of the people I know I am self employed, part of a small company. I both employ and am employed, both a boss and a worker. There are more and more of us.
On 8 May 2010 at 1:10pm love wrote:
conservatives = cuts such as family tax credits . jobs .police public services. crime will go up people out of jobs, split rich and the poor .rich will get richer poor will get poorer, protests riots .fox hunting comes back country in chaos and that just for starters.pm goes to the u.s.a. cos of crime in the u.k. R.I.P.U.K.
On 11 May 2010 at 6:45pm Oilbarron wrote:
Labour= 1997 Conned the electorate(new labour) Same old labour. Played on sleeze with the tories. Shows they are all the same !
Labour= IMF. Every time they get in, they take us to the brink of oblivion.
This time the electorate saw sense. Maybe we might just avoid calling in the IMF. They never save for a rainy day.
Labour= waste, waste and more waste. Too many public service people pushing bits of paper. Police spend most of their time filling in pages/pages
Labour = 13 years of social decay. They spent more time debating banning
fox hunting just to get back at the gentry. Thats class war.
Labour= Out of Downing Street tonight. Good ridance. Un-elected Scottish
PM. Back to north of the border. Start debating the Scottish parliament.
Conservative = Lets sort the same old mess out again.
Don't worry everyone we have a get out clause. Oil struck in Falklands.
Bigger than North Sea ?? This could be our chance to save UK PLC.
Thank God Labour don't have another term. Saving the UK will be down to
oil revenues, not labour policy. However,thats not what they would tell you.
Thankfully they won't have the chance.
David Cameron gets 4 years thats it for him. He will upset too many
freeloaders. 4 years time, here we go again (bright spanking newer Labour)
Lets get on the merry go round again !!
On 12 May 2010 at 2:33pm LOVE wrote:
conservatives lies = cuts massive cuts more for the rich less for the poor folk =thatcher again tory toffs and the libs=dogs on heat for power back to the dark days=riots =protests=unrest
On 12 May 2010 at 2:34pm LOVE wrote:
slaves to torys might machine
On 12 May 2010 at 2:36pm LOVE wrote:
cam+cleggy wife and husband lovers together
On 12 May 2010 at 2:39pm LOVE wrote:
crime under the torys will rise cos of there ways i pity those who fell for there lies again did u not see last time they have not changed you will see in time my friends
On 13 May 2010 at 10:08am Dave wrote:
Lets hope they bring back spelling and grammar
On 14 May 2010 at 11:14am love wrote:
i agree lol lol
On 14 May 2010 at 11:16am love wrote:
r u a conservative
On 14 May 2010 at 11:21am love wrote:
pm will go to u.s. cos crime will go up and be lots of riots o dark days ahead of us .big black sky hanging over the u.k. is on its way
On 14 May 2010 at 1:48pm MC wrote: