On 16 Jul 2009 at 1:35pm bonfirek wrote:
Just got back from the Soldiers parade through town. Heroes the lot of them and if anyone says otherwise there a traitor and should be hung!
On 16 Jul 2009 at 2:31pm what the f**K ?? wrote:
@ Ed can do & bonfirek, Not opposed to road closures or anything similar and to be quite honest couldnt give a F**K about consultation for anything else in this town. But when it comes to the brainwashing of our youngsters and sending them to die for nothing then i am gonna stand against it. If you believe all the propaganda then more fool you ! Any parent who has looked these kids in the eye and said, oh yeah good career, see the world, now has their own sons blood on their hands. These boys have a choice in what they do !! Following orders ???? If they were on National service and were forced to go against their will then i would be there cheering them home, but i cant figure out which century you think were living in ??? What about the attrocities comitted in Africa and the rest of the world ??? Oh Yeah we already control their oil!! Any country who meddles in the affairs of other countries without their borders and way of life being threatened is playing a dangerous game and these boys are just cheap mercenaries, pawns in a very dangerous game. You cannot dress up your flag waving as being patriotic ! Because at the same time you cheer on war business for the sake of it ! If you really care about our youngsters then get back into town and tip that recruitment wagon into the river and then demand more accountability at the top and take the decision of war away from the incompetant few and let us all decide the fate of our children !! As for hanging, bonfirek, come try it!!!
On 16 Jul 2009 at 2:37pm Fighting Talk wrote:
I was surprised how many people were there. The streets were packed. Thought the speech the commander gave was very moving, talking about how he doesn't feel he's come home until he's seen the South Downs. You can be anti-war and still applaud the boys and young men who served over there for their bravery, and for enduring such hardship. I'm glad so many people understood that.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 2:43pm Warrior wrote:
Just imagine coming back from Afghanistan, marching through the streets and then realising you were being supported by people like Bonfirek. It would be enough to make you weep.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 2:59pm Decent Citizen wrote:
Absolutel fantastic sight . A great many people turned out. We were there cheering and waving. I felt very proud to be British. Shame on you Bonfirek!
On 16 Jul 2009 at 3:08pm sashimi wrote:
As Fighting Talk says, you can be anti-war and still applaud. What the F, our quarrel is with the politicos who send them there. Isn't it better that control is in the hands of people we elect and can unelect than with their commanders? As for hanging, bonfirek, just a small picky point: pictures are hung, traitors are hanged. Or did you mean in effigy?
On 16 Jul 2009 at 3:12pm what the f**k ?? wrote:
@ Fighting talk, I could live in the jungle and fight tigers with my bare hands and nobody would doubt that this was brave. For our country this would achieve as much as all the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. They endured great hardship and were brave for what ?????? I understand the things they have endured but for what?????? cheer them on by all means but first ask questions of who sent them and why ???? i say again, if we had been saved then cheer on, but if you cheer them on and make them feel important about making a bad, unenforced choice in life which has resulted in many deaths then you perpetuate a sad situation !
On 16 Jul 2009 at 3:23pm Wilhelm wrote:
"Nazi leader Hermann Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during
the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trials, 1946 April 18, quoted in
Gilbert's book 'Nuremberg Diary.'
Goering: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some
poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that
he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece.
Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in
England, nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is
understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who
determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the
people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some
say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the
United States only Congress can declare wars.
Goering: Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the
bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them
they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of
patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in
On 16 Jul 2009 at 3:28pm what the f**k ?? wrote:
@ sashimi, i really dont mean to be rude to anyone but you all miss the point. Its easy to shift the blame to the politicos but in the west we are all priviledged enough to be able make a choice without being forced to do so with direction from the government. But people have become so self -centered, all these boys had to do was give up that army career, buy themselves out, refuse to give their life for nothing, find another job. Its about being socially responsible. I wont cheer them on because they had a choice. The same as i wont cheer on multiple home owners for their great business sense and contribution to the growth of the present ecomony !! We can all make a difference, just think outside the box and not only about yourself !
On 16 Jul 2009 at 3:51pm sashimi wrote:
What the F, soldiers sign up to do what they are told to do by their legitimate superiors under their rules of engagement and the international rule of law. They obey orders except when it is illegal for them to do so - eg committing a war crime. They don't get to pick and choose the causes. Their only discretion is in how they carry out their orders and meet the objectives they have been set. This applies to generals as much as privates and unless we want to live in a world where the military intervene in politics and stage coup d'etats, it's the only one that's worthwhile. I'm sorry if you don't agree with this and you are entitled to your view.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 4:23pm ??? wrote:
Did I miss something! Everyone started having a go at Bofirek and he was backing the march!
On 16 Jul 2009 at 4:27pm Hotman wrote:
??? - it's because he discredits any cause he supports.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 4:58pm Ed Can Do wrote:
I'm not an ardent supporter of the war in Afganistan but I don't think it's such the bad thing that some people make it out to be. I genuinely believe we are doing good out there. That said, I would always support our troops, no matter who they were fighting.
Yes, they know what they are getting into when they sign up and inherent in that would appear to be a level of compliance with the current leadership of the country but I think if someone goes and spends several months in a desert getting shot at, ostensibly on our behalf, it's not much to ask for people to go and give them a cheer when they come home again is it?
On 16 Jul 2009 at 5:00pm bonfirek wrote:
In that case i very much support Hotman!
On 16 Jul 2009 at 5:01pm Rozzer wrote:
British troops will leave Afghanistan when Obama decides American troops are leaving. It's nothing to do with 'fighting for Queen and Country', it's to do with doing whatever the US tells us. Humiliating really and a cruel joke on our soldiers.
On 16 Jul 2009 at 5:03pm Hotman wrote:
Thanks Bonfirek and I hope you'll agree anyone who doesn't is a traitor and should be hung (or hanged as they used to say at the Old Bailey).
On 16 Jul 2009 at 6:05pm The Tooth Fairy wrote:
Excellent day. Pity the Mayor (Amanda Dean) couldn't quite work out that you have to stand a bit closer to a microphone. Didn't hear a word she said until the very end.
On 17 Jul 2009 at 6:55am what the f**K ?? wrote:
@sashimi, Still dont wish to be rude but are you thick ? im talking about leaving the army not picking and choosing your conflicts !! You can choose your job and they chose to dodge bullets and fight for empty causes ! if you are that patriotic then join up if world affairs/events put us in danger of attack. As for coup d'etat, where does that come into the equation ? Who said anything about the army having power and choice over what it does, ONLY YOU !!! I think you have gone off on a tangent !! Individuals have a choice how they live their lives and which job they do !! Have an army by all means, Large,mean and fully trained, but unless someone fires stuff at us or steps foot on our soil and starts shooting people then each new conflict is as pointless as the last! so if you really like flag waving then go wave a flag outside the gates of downing street and petition for the end of pointless political wars !!!!
On 17 Jul 2009 at 11:41am sashimi wrote:
What the F, this is pretty strong stuff from someone who is basically on the same side as me. Yesterday was about showing support for the men and women who volunteer for a difficult and dangerous job looking after our security. If Britain is directly threatened I want them to use all their professional skill, energy and courage to protect us. They have been told that by confronting and defeating Al Quaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan they are preventing them from bringing the war to our streets. That's what the 19 year old squaddie I spoke to yesterday believes. Like you, I don't buy that argument but I can see how others might. But it's very simple for the soldiers: for as long as they are in the Army they have to obey legitimate orders. We don't want a demoralised army or a mutiny because we may need them later for a cause we both believe in. If we want to bring about change, we need to convert or remove from office the people giving them their orders.
On 17 Jul 2009 at 12:36pm The Major wrote:
Is WTF?? a cheese eating surrender monkey?
On 17 Jul 2009 at 2:00pm Hotman wrote:
Was The Major a lance-jack, if that?
On 18 Jul 2009 at 9:56am huw wrote:
An army is only their to protect our country, What the f**k?
Would any of you promote something like intervention in Darfur? Would this be an acceptable use of military power?
Now, the reason for the invasion of Afghanistan was the flimsy terrorist excuse, but has become more about stability and human rights (with a dash of the strategic importance of the country). Is this a bad thing?
On 18 Jul 2009 at 2:58pm Hotman wrote:
Don't forget that before the invasion the government wheeled out Mrs Blair and Mrs Kinnock to pretend that it was really to make sure girls in Afghanistan could get an education. A noble ambition - but guns and bombs are a very heavy-handed way of going about it. And - as with everything that Blair and Kinnock are involved in - it was a lie.