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Grange Gardens - H&S gone mad?

On 19 Apr 2008 at 5:51pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
What is happening to the Grange Gardens? Trees are being chopped down or fenced off, all in the name of health and safety I've been told.
What about mental health?
If you stop kids climbing trees and fence off anything potentially dangerous (i.e anything that could get the Council sued), then you're robbing them of a normal childhood.
Obviously some health and safety measures are good, like getting rid of concrete in children's playgrounds and replacing them with woodchips.
However, when it gets to the point where my son's school has banned snowballs, conkers and climbing trees, then haven't we condemned our kids to a pretty miserable childhood?
On 19 Apr 2008 at 7:32pm FA wrote:
If kids want to climb trees, take them to a wood NOT an ornamental garden where the plants...and trees have significant historic and decorative value.
Anyone who lets their kids climb the trees in the grange should have their kids taken away from them.
*cue all the "oh my little Johnny would never do a thing like that" brigade*
On 19 Apr 2008 at 7:56pm SHS wrote:
The trees have significant historic and decorative value? So why are they being cut down then, in Grange Gardens are throughout Lewes? Don't agree with you on this FA, Grange Gardens is one of the few places in Lewes where kids can have fun, safely, and part of that fun should include running wild and climbing the trees.
On 19 Apr 2008 at 9:20pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
I would never let my boy climb ornammental trees or trample over plants, but as SHS said, the trees that were cut down didn't fall into this category.
I'd rather have kids quietly climbing trees rather than running around and screaming. But perhaps FA would prefer to have children banned from the Grange.
On 19 Apr 2008 at 10:24pm Dahlia Rich wrote:
Earl of Lewes, you would not believe what the Council get sued for, which is probably why they are so over the top with regards to h & s.
On 20 Apr 2008 at 6:06pm Childcatcher! wrote:
Pesky kids in the Grange Gardens? Looks like a job for childcatcher!
On 21 Apr 2008 at 10:11am Enoch wrote:
The trees which were cut down were quite low and perfect for climbing for kids - they could be seen and the branches were low to the ground. Some children cannot be stopped from climbing. I do tell my children not the climb the trees so they climb along the wall of the ornamental garden or along the outside of the bridges. My daughters favourite tree is the big yew as she can get up really high and hide from the warden! I might ask the Council to take down the ornamental lamp posts in the precinct because my daughter also likes to climb them. I have a problem - and don't tell me to take her to the climbing wall at the Leisure Centre because she is too young!
On 21 Apr 2008 at 11:44am madge wrote:
Why do people make such crass statements....
"Anyone who lets their kids climb the trees in the grange should have their kids taken away from them" (see FA above)...
you'd think some people were never children!!!
On 21 Apr 2008 at 11:51am FA wrote:
Go to the local woods if you want your kids to climb trees....i'm a head gardener and i get fed up to the back teeth of having to sort out broken branches from ornamental trees.....go and climb some sh*tty old sycamores in the woods, not 200 year old specimens in an ornamental garden.
Enoch...is your daughter familliar with the word "NO"....may be a coarse in parenting would suit you better.
On 21 Apr 2008 at 8:45pm Musher wrote:
I know Enoch's kids and the word "NO" is never going to work, a bunch of bananas, maybe, but "NO"? Never!
Joking aside I thought that the Grange was a "Public Garden" I never realised it was a tree museum run for the benefit of the gardeners, perhaps you ought to lock the gates FA.
I now live in Norway where the H&S mollycoddling of children is unheard ofand my kids have gone from crying at the drop of a hat to flying a*se over tit, picking themselves up and getting on with it. I'm convinced that if more English children were given the kind of supervised freedom that Enoch and his charming wife Cynthia provide, our country would have a lot less problems with it's teens than it has now.
On 21 Apr 2008 at 9:05pm FA wrote:
Absolutely spot on Musher...A PUBLIC GARDEN....not a playground. I don't work at the grange and it's a garden for the benifit of the public...not for snotty little brats to go climbing on.
If the kids want to climb on things...take them down the f***ing park.
Oh and i'm glad you've just sorted the whole of our dodgy society out by letting the kids climb a tree. Nice one...i like that (isn't "Supervised freedom" an oxymoron ?)
On 22 Apr 2008 at 8:32am Inspector Mouse wrote:
I'm with FA on this one. It is a GARDEN for everyone. A place to sit and enjoy the peace and beautiful flowers...NOT to listen to a bunch of monkeys swinging through the trees. There are plenty of places especially designed for kids to climb, play, make noise etc....The Grange is not one of them...
On 22 Apr 2008 at 9:30am MADGE wrote:
The grange is a garden for everyone to enjoy, their are no signs saying adults only & plenty of areas where you can seek out a quiet spot if you wish. Instead of banishing the children if you want total peace & quiet might I suggest there are plenty of places adults can go to enjoy being alone. With housing as it is many children do not have the simple luxury of a safe garden & few parents can justify spending money so their children can enjoy being children. Why do people have to be so damn selfish about everything for goodness sake let children be children, its no wonder so many rebel when they get older.
On 22 Apr 2008 at 10:19am Taff wrote:
And this discussion will stop the games of football in the Grange too will it?
On 22 Apr 2008 at 11:26am Inspector Mouse wrote:
I SAID it is a garden for everyone. I take my 2 year old but even he knows that he is not supposed to do certain things....
People should show some respect for others
On 22 Apr 2008 at 1:48pm anon wrote:
Yes i totally agree with the fact that there's alot of people without gardens, but still show respect for the beautiful gardens and the area that is given to us. The staff man these gardens and make them nice for us to admire, not for abusing. My children use them in the summer for picnics, general frizby and soft ball games and still respect the grounds. I certainly would not let my children climb the trees, if they did i would kick their asses straight home. I am fortunate enough to have brought my children up to respect property and others, but still enjoy themselves.
On 22 Apr 2008 at 5:19pm Enoch wrote:
FA I hope you did not climb on anything in the Police dog field when you were younger or use it as an assault course. But you have probably forgotten that, now you are old and miserable. Why if the trees were so precious were they cut down! Not that attractive then. I DO tell my children off for climbing trees or walls they do have more respect than most for people and property it is just one child with a talent for climbing I have problems with. As for kicking their arses home - I was under the impression that assault was now frowned upon especially in Mamby Pamby Lewes.
Thank you Musher for your support - people can be SOOOO sanctimonious when they don't know the individual or the circumstances - Regards to Mrs Musher.
On 22 Apr 2008 at 6:30pm anon wrote:
I cant be doing with all this mamby pamby stuff where you cant smack your kids if they deserve it. My kids get a clip if their out of order and no one will ever stop me. beating kids is a different thing, i totally disagree with that. If more kids got a clip round the ear from parents, teachers and police then i personally i think there would be less trouble on the streets.
On 22 Apr 2008 at 6:47pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Call me an old hippy, but I think there's room for everyone in the Grange. I don't mind seeing teenagers playing football - they're enjoying themselves and not getting up to mischief. I also like seeing the smaller kids enjoying the gardens. So what if they climb trees? As long as they're not making a racket and damaging things, them what's the problem?

For those of us who want peace and quiet, there's the flower garden.

What I like about the gardens is seeing everyone enjoy them.

The only thing that annoys me is seeing some idiot barking into their mobile phone, talking at the top of their voice.

On 22 Apr 2008 at 7:05pm FA wrote:
I presume Enoch that if you ever visited a place like Wakehurst place, Kew gardens or Sheffield park that you'd be quite happy to let your kids climb all over the superb trees there ???????
On 22 Apr 2008 at 8:42pm madge wrote:
Obviously in my post I didnt mean that kids should run riot in the grange but why does there have to be so many taboos all the time. There is always someone frowning at or venting their dissaproval to everything children do nowadays. Im not one to live in the past but we walked on walls, climbed trees & explored places as kids without adult supervision & without doing willful damage. We were polite & respectful of our elders & knew right from wrong. We made mistakes & learnt what was uncceptable through play & accepted being told off by any adults because on the whole they were reasonable & cared about the children in the community. Today people are miserable, selfish & judgemental for no good reason, everything is no no no no!
On 23 Apr 2008 at 9:36am Enoch wrote:
You miss the point FA - I don't let my children climb the trees I only let them climb the ones 10 other children are climbing. I possess common sense and can tell a young, ornamental, delicate tree from a sturdy old large tree. The original thread was about the trees which have been cut down which my children used to like to climb not about any and every tree in the Grange. I have never been to the other gardens you mentioned - I would only go if I had to take an elderly relative out for the day - just not my thing.
On 23 Apr 2008 at 9:48am Amethyst wrote:
I know Enoch, and the children do not run riot, they have respect for property and people and they do get a serious telling off if they misbehave. They don't damage the plants either. All you perfect parents must have heard of middle child syndrome - incredibly independent, confident children. Enoch is not a mamby pamby, my little darling type and the children are well balanced with an incredible zest for life. You lot who criticise must have been terribly good children who did everything your parents told you, unlike myself who would say yes, smile sweetly and then go and do it when your parents weren't watching.
On 23 Apr 2008 at 10:29pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Enoch's exactly right. I let my child climb the normal trees but wouldn't let him near any of the special ones. I also stopped him running around the parts where people obviously wanted some peace and quiet.

Before I became a parent I remember how annoying it was when people let their children run riot, so I try to get a balance between letting my kids enjoy themselves and not being a pain in the arse for other people.

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