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Government Debt

On 4 Jul 2020 at 9:31pm Tom Pain wrote:
It's up to almost TWO TRILLION pounds. That's more than the whole economy,according to the BBC. 55.2 billion borrowed from the IMF in May.
You may have heard of the International Monetary Fund, the enforcement arm of the World Bank. The heavy mob that moves into countries when they can't keep up the interest payments.Like a loan shark, they're ruthless~everything has to be sold off, usually for a lot less than it's worth. There's no way the NHS is safe,or anything for that matter, even a labour government tomorrow
couldn't save it. Taxes will go up, think of all the furlough money paid out, that'll be down to the taxpayer. Then there's new carbon taxes to pay for climate change reversal. Isn't it odd that the World Economic Forum think tank,the Club of Rome came up with that idea. Purely coincidental ! They also said that the future will be "post democratic." Comforting? Oh yes, the IMF have forecast a worse depression than The Great Depression of the1930s.Still think the lockdown was a good idea? The suffering from social service cuts will dwarf that of a severe seasonal flu. Austerity?, you ain't seen nothing yet. Get fit and look after your friends and family,you're going to need them, good luck. My private jet is loaded and I'm off to the Caribbean.
On 4 Jul 2020 at 11:13pm Hyena wrote:
Itís hurricane season!
On 4 Jul 2020 at 11:38pm Tom Pain wrote:
Thanks man, I'll head off to the Malvinas,still unacountably above the waves.
On 5 Jul 2020 at 4:25pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@TP - the lockdown is economically costly, but I can't even begin to think of the numbers of deaths that would have occurred had we not gone into lockdown, even as late as we did. 50k+ deaths in a matter of months seems bad enough as it stands. If that means paying more VAT, and additional taxes sensibly distributed (and absorbed) across the economy, then it would have been worth it.

As for the calls for further austerity - possibly, but I'm not sure if that has ever been successful enough to use as a strategy again to combat debt. Even Boris and Risi have figured that out to a certain extent.

But Tom, please, by all means, go into your underground bunker now before the purge begins.
On 5 Jul 2020 at 6:44pm Basil wrote:
Those who 'lend' the money? Where does it come from? Are there individuals arouns who can lend money like this? Or are we talking about something notional, lights on a screen?
On 5 Jul 2020 at 6:52pm Nevillman wrote:
We could be in for a dose of inflation. This would soon reduce the debt. Biggest losers would be savers who are mainly older. As they are arguably the biggest gainers from the lockdown then maybe that's fair.
Or maybe something else will happen. Hard to see how a lot of people are not going to lose out somewhere and somehow.
On 5 Jul 2020 at 9:37pm Stephen Watson wrote:
I think Tom is being too negative. Every debt is somebody's asset, so if the government debt is two trillion pounds, that means the government has created two trillion pounds of wealth for somebody. Great, isn't it? Government can create as much as it wants - £200bn were created out of thin air at the start of lockdown and given to the banks and hedge funds via QE. They can produce as much more of that as they like. But of course, the present lot aren't going to direct it to the NHS or the real economy of people who do useful things, and if they levy taxes, that will be a political choice too. Tories won't levy them on their corrupt super-rich sponsors. Austerity was always a political choice and so it will be in future.
Real costs don't have £ or $ signs in front of them. They include lost and damaged lives, and our increasingly crippled planet. Those are utlimately the costs that matter.
On 5 Jul 2020 at 11:14pm Tom Pain wrote:
Yes every debt is somebody's asset. The government signs an IOU to the IMF who,in accordance with double entry book keeping, log it as an asset and a debt to the gov. It's all numbers on a screen. The gov. then distribute those numbers to businesses who distribute them to the bank accounts of their employees on furlough. Those numbers go from the employees bank to the IMF where they register as an asset to themself which is subtracted from the debt the gov. owes them. Thus the books are balanced, debt equals asset.
If you have the wit to follow that, think on. The IMF charges interest, there's no such thing as a free lunch. Where does that come from? Also, what did the IMF give apart from numbers on a screen? I'm sequestered in my bunker and can't see a thing so I trust that those high minded people above ground will come up with the answer. This story goes a lot further, come up wiith an answer and we can proceed, otherwise we are lost in a debt trap which will never end. Come on then, I challenge you! Rise to the occasion. Or are you just big mouths?
On 5 Jul 2020 at 11:40pm Tom Pain wrote:
P.S. this is becoming a habit but what the hell? You may need a little help so may I refer you to you tube~ Richard Werner the ECB wants to be the only bank in town. Listen and learn from the maestro, his Twitter a|c is interesting too.
On 6 Jul 2020 at 9:18am Nevillman wrote:
Tom. You clearly think the answer to the question of who pays the interest to the IMF and what else it provides is interesting. Why not tell us your view or even why it matters. Also please tell us what Werner says that is so interesting and relevant. I've tried and couldn't see it. Who exactly are you accusing of being a big mouth and why should they be remotely concerned that is your view of them and they spend the whole day researching into the views of a German economist to disprove it? We are obviously not up to your intellectual standard so please spell it out to us.
On 6 Jul 2020 at 2:26pm Mark wrote:
What I'd like to see is Amazon paying a teeny, tiny amount of actual tax. Like I do and you do. They'll have been raking it in this summer. I realise that this isn't a complete answer to the issue.
On 6 Jul 2020 at 3:09pm Tom Pain wrote:
I'd like to see that too, Mark, what do you think the chances are? I saw recently that amazon have a sweetheart deal with the American postal service! As George Carlin said~"it's one big club and you ain't a member". I asked what the IM F gave apart from numbers on a screen to see f anyone had an idea, Nev. I think the answer to the big mouth question is obvious,apart from me, I know that already. I'm looking for a conversation and I forgot to say to Mark that the tax Amazon could pay is a drop in the ocean compared to what we pay to the central banking cartel for using their"money" .Nev, I thought you,with your economics background might be interested in a fair, progressive and sustainable economy,rather than the the fraudulent one we are saddled with which just siphons wealth up to the filthy rich. I'm not talking communism either, with it's central bank that system has only done the same. Looks like my Maldives idyll will have to wait!
On 7 Jul 2020 at 11:56pm Tom Pain wrote:
Well it looks as if I can jet off soon , none of the loud mouths with nothing behind them have anything to say, all piss and wind eh? Disappointing but unexpected and a bit of a relief to be honest, I put myself in a position that I only prayed that I could answer,but there you go. Even if I had that jet where could I go? Elon Musk has rockets ready to put up thousands of satellites, thousands, for global 5G, really green eh? what a deal! World wide surveillance, how secure, maximum security, barbed wire around the whole planet. Enjoy.
On 9 Jul 2020 at 7:17pm Nevillman wrote:
I think it is unlikely that the IMF will be involved at all in our deficit Tom. The government have offered to give lots of money that it hasn't got. It may introduce a savings scheme so that taxpayers give their money to the government as a loan rather than tax. It may also just give it. This will have the effect of increasing the wealth and income of a lot of people. There will be a growth in imports and for home produced goods and services increased demand which will lead to an increase in their price. Increased imports will reduce the value of the pound. This will lead to inflation which depending on the state of the labour market may lead to increases in wages for some and serious inflation. This will quickly reduce the debt but reduce the wealth of savers and will necessitate a recession. In a recession some do okay but families where people are unemployed do badly.
Good luck everybody.
Or something else entirely may happen.
On 11 Jul 2020 at 8:02pm Tom Pain wrote:
The government borrowed 55.2 billion in may and ruined the economy by locking us down on figures for probable deaths from Imperial college, sponsored by Gates, who have a 100% record for massive exaggeration. Does nobody wonder why? In January, the WEF , sponsored by Gates, held an exercise based on a corona virus pandemic, coincidentally. Isn't anyone curious about their prescience? By the way, Japan didn't lock down and had far less casualties, NOT due to massive testing as someone suggested a while back, they hardly tested at all. Best we all just bury our heads in the sand, eh?

On 12 Jul 2020 at 2:04pm Eighties Boy wrote:
Try turning off the news, media, whatever. If the sun comes up in the morning, you're a winner.
On 13 Jul 2020 at 6:17pm Tom Pain wrote:
The sun came up but I was locked down.
There's talk of the government making covid vaccination mandatory.
Nuremberg Code 1947 for medical procedures~ The voluntary, informed consent of the human subject is absolutely essential.
In case anyone doesn't know, this law was made after world war 2 because the Nazis did medical experiments on people in their concentration camps without their permission.
The vaccine they are going to use which will change our DNA for ever has never been used on people before. It is experimental.
What sort of government does that sort of thing? See above.
Kick out the Nazi scum.

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