Lewes Forum thread

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From Remain To Leave

On 30 Nov 2016 at 11:25am Thatch wrote:

I was someone that voted to Remain back in June. I wasn't a die hard Remainer, but had felt that both campaigns had been info light and on that basis couldn't vote for change.
Since June the aggressive anti democratic noises coming out of Brussels and in particular France and Germany has completely changed my mind.
Yesterday I saw an interview where on being asked the question " what would you say to countries who may consider a referendum in the future? " Jean-Claude Junker replied " I would advise against this as the people would probably vote to leave "
If this statement doesn't back up what the Leavers said all along that the EU is undemocratic then I don't know what does.
My views are now simple and this is how I think we should start negotiations " if being in the single market compromises the right of our sovereign government to make all laws and policy with regards to the UK, then we don't want to be part of it. "
I no longer care if our place in the World is diminished and there is less money in our coffers, I would much rather live in a country which has complete Sovereignty and democracy.
Thank you and well done to all those who voted to leave.

On 30 Nov 2016 at 12:28pm The people wrote:

You are so right about the UK loss of legal control over what its businesses and people can and can't do. I was out from the start and now we are seeing the real lack of legal control the UK has. Next to Exit will be Italy IMO. Their banking crisis is far worse than UKs and EU will not allow them to fix it the way they want. Another Greece...

On 30 Nov 2016 at 12:54pm EU quotes wrote:

"Europe's nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening" Jean Monnet
"There can be no democratic choice against the EU treaties." - Juncker
"Leave the EU and we'll make your lives a misery" Juncker to UK
"Deserters will not be welcomed with open arms" Juncker
"They must go on voting until they get it right.� Jose Manuel Barroso
�Sometimes I like to compare the EU as a creation to the organization of empire. We have the dimension of empire.� - Jose Manuel Barroso
�We need to build a United States of Europe with the [EU] Commission as government� - Viviane Reding EU commissioner
"The United Kingdom belongs to the European Union" Martin Schulz EU parliament president

On 30 Nov 2016 at 12:55pm Sorry wrote:

I'm the other way thatch,from leave to remain,more freedom my arse,a slow decline and back to Americas pet poodle...sorry everyone.

On 30 Nov 2016 at 1:42pm Amon Wildes wrote:

"I no longer care if our place in the World is diminished and there is less money in our coffers, I would much rather live in a country which has complete Sovereignty and democracy. "
.
So what does 'sovereignty mean' to you then? We have the Daily Mail raging against judges who have the temerity to suggest that Parliament should be able to vote on the terms of Brexit. Note, "the terms" - not whether we leave or not. The Daily Mail and Brexiteers want an unelected Prime Minister to have complete control over when we trigger article 50 and the terms we negotiate. Only 2 thirds of the country actually voted in the referendum and Nigel Farage would have contested a 52/48 split on the votes actually cast in the referendum if it had gone the other way. While being sorry we voted to leave, I do at least feel that my Sovereignty should be respected and that Parliament has the final say-so on the terms etc. of this shocking and extremely expensive fiasco. I didn't vote to become poorer and see my children and grandchildren left with a broken economy, and more to the point, a broken planet. I would like at least to have the chance of Parliament and my elected representative having some scrutiny in this nonsense.

On 30 Nov 2016 at 8:28pm Tom Pain wrote:

Well Amon, if you're worried about the economy,may I suggest you find out how money is created out of nothing ! I'm not joking. Once you've figured that out you may see that the interests of the money creators are diametrically opposed to the general public's. Sorting the mess out in one country would be hard enough let alone a whole continent. I wish you success . Once you've seen through the deliberate complexities, it's very simple but disheartening dishonest.

On 1 Dec 2016 at 9:51am robp wrote:

Thanks, Tom, we do know how money works. We have noticed our British government creating hundreds of billions of pounds worth of money out of nothing to ease the pain of banks and their shareholders while hounding unemployed and sick people into foodbanks.
The EU is run by a bunch of capitalist neoliberals, but its entire functioning is underpinned by human rights legislation that was woven in so tightly that the neoliberals have been unable to unweave it. The UK is run by a bunch of capitalist neoliberals who want to leave the EU so that they can undo all that human rights stuff which they call nonsense, so that they can make even more money while making the rest of us even more precarious. The EU is not great but being in it is far better than being out of it, as we are beginning to discover.