On 18 Jan 2018 at 7:25am Sue wrote:
Just seen on the news that parents are going to have to pay for nappies and meals while in Nursery care. It was supposed to be free. Thank you Mrs May, another broken promise on top of our 6% Council Tax.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 9:09am Just me wrote:
If you pay for nursery then you are paying for these things in your fees.
If your child is not in nursery then you are paying for these things anyway. I don't really see what the difference is between paying for them at home or paying for them at nursery.
If you are at a pre school then I don't think they are included anyway as it would mimic that of a school
On 18 Jan 2018 at 9:54am Sue wrote:
Yes, exactly. I should be getting free nappies and meals in my fees. But the BBC said this morning I am now going to have to pay for them. Another broken promise!
On 18 Jan 2018 at 10:08am Just me wrote:
But by definition of fees means you are not getting free nappies and meals. You are paying for them. Your nursery will outline what is included within the fees before you join. My sons nursery includes nappies and meals within them. Therefore the nappies are not free they are included in what you currently pay. They don't reduce the cost if you don't use them (as we don't for the nappies)
On 18 Jan 2018 at 12:03pm Q wrote:
Sue, your nursery is only paid £3 an hour for your child. Maximum ratio of children to adult is 3 to 1 making £9 per hour. Minimum wage £7.20. Available for overheads and profit £1.80. Nurseries are therefore recouping some cost where they can. Have you ever heard of a millionaire nursery provider?Stop thinking government should provide everything you might need, stop trying to make political points about every bit of trivia. Stop coming out with left wing tripe.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 12:46pm Nursery Worker's Spouse wrote:
Many small nurseries are finding that the economics are pretty much as 'Q' states, and that they simply cannot break even (let alone return a profit if they hope to do so) if all the children they take are 100% funded by the Government vouchers.
So, the nursery has to either: 1) run at a loss (not a long term option unless they are happy to do so), 2) seek extra external funds from generous benefactors (not easy in times of austerity, and few nurseries staff have the spare time to do so), 3) they can charge some form of 'top up fee' - possibly via charging for nappies, food etc, or 4) they can increase the fees where parents are paying for some/all of their childrens' care - in effect option 4)means parents who send children outside the voucher scheme would pay more per hour to cover the 'losses' so that their 'premium' can subsidise the losses the nursery suffers on other children who are only funded via vouchers.
What would you do in that situation - 'fairest' and 'easiest' way seems to be to charge parents for 'additional' items such as consumables (food, nappies etc) - many parents could perhaps avoid paying fees for those items by supplying them themselves...
In short, the current vouchers' hourly rate does not really cover the 'total' hourly cost of childcare in many nurseries.
The Government will respond saying that the voucher scheme worked well in their trial areas - what they are less likely to admit to is that the trials were run in areas where cost of living was lower, and before the last wave of increases in business rents/rates and national minimum wage. Thus the nurseries who took part in the trials probably had lower operating costs than many other nurseries do at this point in time, thus making economics work a little better at that time.
And, the Government, via Ofsted, are expecting an ever higher level of training and competence for Nursery staff, plus ever nmore detailled records of each child's progress against government-dictated learnign goals - neither of which is ncessarily a bad thing, but of course, training costs money, and trained staff then tend to expect higher wages/salaries than their less experienced colleagues, whilst record keeping menas more staff (or longer staff hours) to allow time to record the children's progress.
All the Government need do is describe the scheme as 'Subsidised childcare' rather than 'Free childcare' and the whole problem goes away, as parents' expectation would be lowe, and nurseries would feel more able to charge a top-up fee to cover the voucher short-fall per hour.
Or, Government could increase the 'hourly rate' the vouchers pay to nurseries... but that means finding more funding.
Many nurseries, even those few who are still happy to operate as non-profit making charities etc, are seriously considering whether or not they can continue to operate under the current voucher arrangements.
Unless and until childcare vouchers reflect the true cost that a nursery incurs in providing that care, then top up fees, 'add-on' fees or unfair subsidastion at the expense on non-voucher children will result.
Or nurseries will simply decide they cannot make the economics work, and close down for good - the voucher scheme may well be the 'final straw' for many childcare settings that have struggled to meet the Ofsted-driven burdens of ever increasing staff training cost and record-keeping for years. Many nurseries may well come to the concluion that they have to throw in the towel for good.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 1:23pm Sue wrote:
Its the principle of the thing that I object to. Why should I have to pay for my childrens lunch and nappies when they are at Nursery? Surely that is what I pay for.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 1:31pm Eh? wrote:
That makes no sense at all Sue. "Why should I have to pay for my childrens lunch and nappies when they are at Nursery? Surely that is what I pay for".
I reckon if you can't afford to feed your kids you probably shouldn't have had them in the first place but that's just my opinion.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 5:30pm Mikes motors wrote:
Sue are you married to 'peeved ' who's posting on the pantomime thread?
On 18 Jan 2018 at 5:37pm Sue wrote:
If I go into a cafe they give me a knife and fork to eat with. I don't have to pay extra do I. Same principle.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 5:50pm Local wrote:
You have kids. You pay for them. Child benefit is OK, as that's what my parents received, but it should stop there.
I'm heartily sick and tired of all the overly-entitled free-loaders.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 6:21pm Bert wrote:
Don't have kids if you can't afford nappies !!
On 18 Jan 2018 at 6:22pm Bert wrote:
They sh!t a lot !
On 18 Jan 2018 at 8:07pm Just me wrote:
Has your nursery said they are charging you more?
You sound like a parent who would also refuse to help teach your child ‘they are at school, why should I have to teach them when I send them to school for that’
On 18 Jan 2018 at 9:18pm Peeved wrote:
No Mike of course we are not married.
I wouldn't send a child who is still in nappies to nursery in the first place. They should be being looked after by their mothers. It's outrageous.
On 18 Jan 2018 at 11:26pm Softasa wrote:
Good trolling there peeved! But doesn’t everyone in Lewes use re-usable cloth nappies?