On 2 Jun 2016 at 9:34am demos wrote:
What's in it for me? what's in it for us? That's the prevailing level of clamour and debate over EU membership. There's been no measured informed talk about the needs of a good and caring society. Nothing, just economic sound bites and the beating in of fear in our ears. What kind of country and world do we really want to live in; where is the discussion based on values and how we can best contribute to the wider world?
This referendum should never have been called. The topic is so complex - and so inappropriate for a facile in/out vote especially now when the EU is such a besieged and struggling institution. For David Cameron to have initiated this febrile farce at this time shows an utter lack of judgement. His sole aim in my view was to consolidate Neo Con power within his party.
I have a strong sense of us all being led by the nose in a set piece scenario with cold power cynically pulling the strings. Just today in gallops that great white knight in shining armour, Alistair Darling, getting all cozy with George Osborne. This is not a measured debate of and for the people about a future direction. Never have I been so aware of the London media class - all of them towing the line including the BBC. Really, it frightens me. A grip is being tightened and it does not bode well.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 10:11am Head up ass wrote:
My biggest complaint is the lack of planning, we plan for migration in number based on ten's of thousands and get numbers in the region of hundreds of thousands. If we were planning for migration on the scale we're seeing (and had been for the last decade) staying in the EU would be appealing, but we aren't.
Shame is that's not the fault of the EU, it's the complete lack of will to build new homes, town's, villages and the complete lack of will to upgrade public transport and roads to cope with it.
So I will vote out but for all the wrong reasons.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 10:28am der wrote:
If we continue with EU immigration levels such as we are experiencing now Lewes will be destroyed within 20 years and all semblance of it's culture and community gone because it will be flooded with Londoners fleeing and pushing up prices. The downs will be built on to satisfy the zealots that the answer is simply 'more housing' and 'more roads' until all our greenery and wildlife have gone.
Our young can already not afford to buy anything in lewes or the wider area and now they are struggling to even rent. Remainers are a disgrace to support this.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 11:36am Mavis wrote:
Cameron's called the referendum because that's the mandate he was elected on. At least he carried it out. Something that won't ever happen again if we stay in !
On 2 Jun 2016 at 11:46am A Person wrote:
Honestly, what utter tosh der. Londoners aren't "fleeing", they're either selling up for stupid money to absent billionaires or they're coming here because London prices are so high (because of the absent billionaires). There is a housing problem, certainly, but that's because we haven't built the houses we need. It's got F-all to do with the EU, and you're in a for a mighty shock if you think it has.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 11:53am Clifford wrote:
EU 'free movement of labour" = larger pool for employers to choose from = buyer's market.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 12:28pm PN wrote:
Clifford that is largely a myth although were we to go down the sort of route that Boris and Gove would prefer I foresee a sustained attack on employee rights ( well not much brains needed there thats what they keep saying ).
In fact EU freedom of movement contributes to growth , the exchequer and demand in the economy as well as supply . It is possible that there are patches at low skill levels that are affected ( retail notably ,although retail was going that way anyway and would only be on line otherwise ), in general the demand and supply taken together have increased wages form what they would have been
Whilst that may be too hypothetical for some you will soon see wages in the building industry collapse as the economy contracts if we leave the EU. Perhaps you recall how quickly big name builders were brought yo their knees from 2008 to 2010.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 12:47pm Head up ass wrote:
"EU 'free movement of labour" = larger pool for employers to choose from = buyer's market. "
EU 'free movement of labour" = more people here = sellers market
On 2 Jun 2016 at 1:34pm Wrong again Paul wrote:
That's nonsense Paul, this country is suffering a serious lack of anyone with construction skills, brick layers are demanding higher and higher wages and pretty much everything in the country is being built by Eastern Europeans as it is. When we vote to leave and potentially cut-off the free movement of skilled labour from the continent then construction wages will go through the roof. You've demonstrated time and again on here over the years a really poor grasp of both basic economic theory and real world knowledge, I'm surprised Gideon hasn't offered you a job yet.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 2:46pm Right as usual Paul wrote:
Free movement of Labour and skills ( and the exercise of comparative advantage ) has the effect of concentrating economic activity into hot areas which why a robust regional Policy of some sort of required . My anonymous and abusive critic (aren`t they all) has rightly noticed that the high demand and growing economy of the UK has , at the same time has sucked in Labour but also driven up wages.
What he forgets is how fast they went down during the early part of the recession
Construction wages will not go through the roof because construction will grind to a halt and as we have seen it doesn`t take much for an industry driven by animal spirits to come off the rails . Construction companies are highly geared an without forward contracts rapidly get into trouble
People in construction will remember all too well and if they are smart they will not want to risk it again
On 2 Jun 2016 at 3:31pm der wrote:
so three million EU nationals mainly coming to the south east of the UK has no effect on housing 'a person'?
Where are they all living then in your fantasy world?
Get a grip and learn the facts.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 7:17pm Clifford wrote:
EU 'free movement of labour and capital' = take lower wages or I'll move my business to where people will work for less.
On 2 Jun 2016 at 10:22pm Historian wrote:
Workers rights need looking at from an employers perspective. It okay demanding all sorts of expensive rights, but what do we get instead - zero hour contracts. You can't have it both ways. Employers do actually have the final say, and at the moment they are saying NO.
On 3 Jun 2016 at 10:56am Clifford wrote:
Historian - You are talking about the class struggle that is a facet of every society. We have to decide which side we are on, not imagine there is some middle way.