Lewes Forum thread

Go on, tell 'em what you think

Lewes Forum New message


On 1 Oct 2008 at 1:28pm Ben wrote:
While doing some background reading on the whole parking shebang, I was surprised to note that in the 2005 post-implementation consultation, only 21 per cent of Lewes residents said the parking scheme should be abolished entirely. Lies, damn lies and statistics, or is this a true reflection of feeling in the town? Was it the case then but not now? Shameless ESCC propaganda? Or have I missed something? There were only 1,088 respondents, but in situations where there is strong feeling about something, any bias is usually in favour of the objectors, not the reverse.
On 1 Oct 2008 at 1:51pm Smiler wrote:
I didn't get a consulted, no questionnaire through my door, nothing
I don't think ESCC would be brave enough to consult on this scheme again though even though they are working for us! Pah!

On 1 Oct 2008 at 1:53pm Ben wrote:
This was in 2005, like I say.
On 1 Oct 2008 at 2:33pm Taff wrote:
Didnt they run a survey through the Sussex Express earlier this year?
On 1 Oct 2008 at 3:56pm Local wrote:
Ben - do you work in the ESCC press office by any chance?
On 1 Oct 2008 at 5:14pm Ben wrote:
No. I don't.
On 1 Oct 2008 at 10:01pm sashka wrote:
If you obtain the survey and look at how it was constructed it will explain a lot. I got the questionnaire, but it was so ludicrous I wasn't prpeared to support it. The rule with statisctics is to never ask a question you don't want the answer to.
eg Do you want the scheme aboilshed and have a free for all with the risk of traffic chaos instead?
would guarantee a good answer for ESCC.
On 1 Oct 2008 at 10:47pm Spinster Of This Parish wrote:
I seem to recall seeing the questionaire and you are right - it was absolutley loaded.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 8:51am sylvia wrote:
Like it or not, many residents in the town centre do want some kind of parking scheme, to stop people from parking all day.Everyone suffered from commuters at the station, those working in premises locally, egCounty Hall staff, Lewes Grammar School, those visiting the prison etc. The town was stuffed full of their cars, on street all day.
The Chamber of Commerce also want some kind of scheme to achieve the same thing in order to promote the turnover of parking spaces to allow shoppers to park. Lots of people from villages now say, with relief, at least they can find a space now, compared with before.
Whether this scheme is the right scheme is the question, not whether or not there is a return to a "free for all".
On 2 Oct 2008 at 9:26am Ben wrote:
@ sashka / spinster

The suggestion that if the parking scheme was abolished, utter chaos would ensue doesn't seem loaded, it seems very reasonable.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 9:26am Taff wrote:
I do not think it is the entire scheme itself that is the problem and no doubt there are areas of Lewes that probably have benefitted. It is more the fact that as many parking tickets are succesfully appealed against are the operatives actually doing that good a job? I dont believe they can be and the admin costs must be high too, getting higher as more appeals are won.
The attendants methods are nothing short of predetory, encouraged by target bonuses and commission. Its no wonder the townsfolk want to alienate them.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 9:41am sashka wrote:
You are making my point for me Ben!
If the question is asked as i suggested, you are likely to get the answer you have given.
If the question is;
Do you think the Council should abolish the scheme and replace it with an efficient regime of parking wardens, and and lower car park charges to encourage out of town shoppers?
Then it is the same basic 'should the scheme be abolished' question you will get different results.
The questionnaire was an example of poor research methodology. ESCC couldn't ask impartial questions because they had become fixated on the scheme back in early 90's and completely inflexible to any alternative views.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 9:43am Town Centre Resident wrote:
Whilst flawed in its operation, the parking scheme has meant huge improvements for some. 21 per cent sounds about right - the alternative is chaos.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 10:03am Ben wrote:
But sashka, you are talking about amendment, not abolition. The campaign on this website is for abolition. The questionnaire was asking about abolition.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 10:31am Enoch wrote:
If they had just tweaked the existing scheme so that the parking rules were adhered to we would not have needed this crushing NCP regime which is costing a fortune with no benefit to the residents of Lewes. Did the parking system start in 2005? I cant remember, but I do know that resident permits keep going up - 2008/9 - 95, 2007/8 - 90, 2006/7 - 70, 2005/6 - 50 - I wish salaries increased by these % each year!
On 2 Oct 2008 at 2:09pm The Webmaster wrote:
It's a fair point Ben
I have now updated the parking petition page to allow a choice of messages.
One for total abolition of it and another for changing it to suit the visitors and inhabitants of Lewes more than it does now.

I hope that helps.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 2:21pm Ben wrote:
So is there anyone out there who actually wants the parking scheme abolished completely, or does everyone in fact just want it changed in some way? Maybe there should be a wish list of (realistic) changes that could be passed on to ESCC.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 2:25pm The Webmaster wrote:
Judging by the response to the petition there are hundreds of people who have visited this site and sent the petition for it to be abolished entirely.
On 2 Oct 2008 at 2:33pm zola wrote:
In the early 80's in Lewes we had Percy the traffic warden.Remember him? He used to let you off sometimes,was chatty,friendly and a thoroughly nice bloke.He even gave my little boy the buttons from his uniform when he retired because he was fascinated by them...So what has changed? Excuse my ignorance,I don't drive or know much about it all...Who ran the parking system then,and who runs it now? I can't remember traffic wardens being so unpopular then....
On 2 Oct 2008 at 5:56pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I'd be happy happy if it went back to how it was before. There were lots of time limited bays, and you could always get a spot in the town centre if you wanted one. But then I don't live near County Hell, and I have a house with a drive and a garage!
On 2 Oct 2008 at 6:52pm Frak wrote:
But did they have a choice between amend and abolish? Or was it abolish or nothing?
On 2 Oct 2008 at 7:42pm The Webmaster wrote:
Before to day it was just a petition to have it abolished now you have a choice of 2 options abolition or change
On 2 Oct 2008 at 8:58pm Sashka wrote:
Ben. I think you are confusing my response, to your initial post, with the web site petition (though I think the new choice is a good one)
You made a valid point about the reposnse to a council questionnaire, and the fact that it seemed that few people resonded that they wanted the parking scheme abolished,
I have tried to explain how the response depends on the way the question ws phrased originally. i don't have a copy so can't be more specific.
On 3 Oct 2008 at 9:42am ben wrote:
sashka, I understood what you were saying. I'm sure the questionnaire was carefully designed to elicit the desired response (the report on the ESCC website lists the question as "[would you like to see] the CPZ removed completely?". However as far as I can tell the questionnaire also had several questions relating to different possible changes to the scheme). But what I'm saying is that there seems to be a general confusion about the difference between abolition and amendment. Which is why I was confused about the ESCC survey - it seems to me that there are a lot of people dissatisfied with the scheme, but the vast majority of these would just like the scheme changed, to varying degrees, and only a few hardline meter-saboteurs would actually like to see it abolished completely. The biggest issue seems to be the perception of incompetent, draconian enforcement (and before you all start, yes, that's how I perceive it too).

Can't find the survey that Taff mentioned. Anyone remember the outcome?
On 3 Oct 2008 at 9:50am Taff wrote:
Asi said it was a survey by the Sussex Express. Just a fill in the form page in one edition. Cant remeber exactly when! Sorry.
On 4 Oct 2008 at 2:02pm Sashka wrote:
ESCC and LDC are paying the price now for failing to do a proper consultation right at the beginning.
The reason why it is difficult to adjust or change the scheme, is that ESCC decided right from the start to go with the scheme we have now, and the public were not consulted about alternatives. We are all looking at our problems impartially, not in the context of the immoveable beast that ESCC decided would be good for us.
Ben, you originally asked if only 21% of the respondants wishing to see the scheme scrapped in a survey is relevant. My view is that it isn't, because the survey was not impartial and has never allowed the people who actually park in lewes an opportunity to comment on alternatives, such as wardens only, park and ride, or other options. Commenting on variations to the crap scheme we have is like being asked if you would prefer being mugged or burgled.
The scheme has been built on sand, not rock.

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