On 10 Nov 2008 at 8:26pm Efflic wrote:
What a coincidence it is that there is a business called Carnival in Commercial Square.
On 10 Nov 2008 at 9:54pm bonfirebanter wrote:
Punch and Judy stand, viking float, nuff said.
On 10 Nov 2008 at 9:58pm Spinster Of This Parish wrote:
So what, Bill's is in the Cliffe!
On 11 Nov 2008 at 8:44pm Efflic wrote:
I think your on thin ice Bumble Bee with your falic shaped totem pole on wheels.
On 12 Nov 2008 at 8:20am Musher wrote:
We did try a spherical totem ball, but it didn't work, so we decided to go for the traditional phallic shaped one instead.
On 12 Nov 2008 at 3:04pm Enoch wrote:
There is a picture outside the Sussex Express office of a traditional clergy stand. The clergy are getting the #### blown out of them but loving every minute. Not a trace of 'Chicken' wire to be seen.
On 12 Nov 2008 at 5:53pm Musher wrote:
I've just uploaded a picture of this years CSBS Clergy Stand, taken just after Sam Wheeler had his hat blown up. I'd love to see a picture of the Cliffe Clergy Stand, Efflic, could you put one in the gallery, so we can all have a good laugh.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 9:26am WBS wrote:
The 'Punch & Judy Stall' comments are always very amusing.
One question though. How often do the Clergy have to be injured before someone makes a stand and does something to protect them? 'Rookies' are a touch more powerful than the good old days now. Commercials works for them, Cliffe's works (well, worked, it doesn't exist anymore apparently) for them. People always seem so concerned with what others are doing for some reason.
And yes, I have been up on a scaffold before kicking stuff back.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 9:33am Desmond Tutu wrote:
Yes, its a great laugh isn't it Musher. Perhaps you could explain the joke to the person who had to be taken to hospital to have his face stitched up due to the size of firework thrown at the clergy stand. Appreciate it seems like overkill, and maybe it is a bit over the top, although at the end of the day, rookies are one thing, but when you are having rockets fired at you there is a need for some kind of protection. PS. cant see much being thrown at the clergy in your photo by the way !
On 13 Nov 2008 at 9:42am Musher wrote:
I believe there is a waiting list of CSBS members who want to get on the stand, they are all well aware of the risks but are happy to have the privilege of upholding bonfire traditions in the time honoured fashion.
The clergy stand requires a few good marshalls, that's all.
The "chicken wire" solution is throwing the baby out with the bath water, you may as well just have cardboard cutouts stood up there.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 9:56am Musher wrote:
There are no fireworks being thrown because the fireworks have started and the marshalls are stopping people from chucking stuff so the clergy can watch.
It's funny isn't it, if it had been another society that had built the "Punch & Judy Stand" the Cliffe would have been taking the piss non-stop. I know Cliffe members who are appalled by this "solution", surely marshalling is the only respectable answer?
On 13 Nov 2008 at 10:20am Fan of The HSE wrote:
All this banter about what individuals choose to do, what the 'tradition' is bla bla bla bla bla. All good fun but ultimately this BS could be shown to be not only hot air, but contributory negligence.
People who objected to the death-toll among workers building the Hoover Dam were written off as Un-American.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 10:30am Musher wrote:
You're right we should all stay at home on the 5th and drink fruit smoothies.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 11:17am A Mikarios wrote:
Musher, I am sure Sam would have had a right laugh if whatever blew up his hat had been a few inches lower and taken one of his eyes out. I am not saying the Cliffe solution is the right one, but perhaps you could share your wealth of knowledge/experience on this subject meantime and let us all know how marshalls, no matter how good they are, can stop rockets that are fired from the crowd ? Yes, they can kick rookies off the platform if they land on the platform, but if anything come in at head level, or at the speed that rockets travel, then they can do nothing.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 2:11pm Enoch wrote:
I think the point Musher is making is that Efflic should not look down their nose(s) at CSBS - Waterloo walk past Carnival more than CSBS do anyway. That big green eyed monster is a terrible thing.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 4:02pm Musher wrote:
Oh dear... this thread started out as a bit of bonfire banter but seeings as it's degenerated into a slightly bad tempered serious discussion I'll try and put the case for not protecting the clergy with chicken wire.
We did have a problem with rockets, homemade etc being launched at the clergy a few years ago, as you can imagine Paul and the others got pissed off with this so we now have a few blokes in front of the clergy to keep an eye on things. They are quite happy to drag people out of the crowd and kick them off the firesite if necessary.
Obviously this is not a foolproof solution but (touch wood) it has calmed things down to an acceptable level of mayhem.
My biggest concern with the Cliffe clergy stand is not that it looks daft or is against the spirit of bonfire, my problem is the way it says to the crowd "Bring it on!" and encourages them to find something big and bad enough to get through to the clergy. Most if not all of this will bounce off and potentially hit your members, none of whom have volunteered.
I would not like to be in that box when something does find its way in there!
Bonfire is all about controlled anarchy, it's for the societies to set acceptable standards of what can and can't be done, bigger bars on the windows is not the answer.
On 13 Nov 2008 at 4:46pm Cardinal Fang wrote:
Appreciate what you are saying Musher, and it is a fact that the Cliffe have always had Marshalls keeping an eye on the crowd and removing anyone that can be caught firing rockets. Its all very well ejecting someone after the damage has been done though. 'Touching wood' is also fine all the time there are no accidents. For the record meanwhile, I totally agree with a lot of your remarks about the Cliffe 'control tower' and I do think it is over the top, but it will only be a case of one clergy member, from any society, losing an eye and the authorities will be down on not just them, but all of the societies like a ton of bricks. One interesting point however, is that the Cliffe clergy stand is actually designed to catch the fireworks so that they all actually go off around the clergy rather than falling on to the ground, so cant see any danger of anything bouncing back into the members. Have to say though, it is refreshing to see someone on here slating the Cliffe for not being dangerous enough !!
On 14 Nov 2008 at 10:24pm Efflic wrote:
Im intrested in the fact that CSBS members seem to consider the Clergy stand to be the defining point of a traditional bonfire night.
On 14 Nov 2008 at 10:35pm Bernard wrote:
It is no coincidence that a business should adopt its name from where it is positoined in a town. Station Wines is opposite the station, Barbican Carpets is down the road from the barbican and Carnival is in Commercial Square which has a Bonfire Society that chooses to take a more Carnival approach to Bonfire rather than the more traditional celebrations that take place else where in the town.
On 15 Nov 2008 at 12:07am Enoch wrote:
Being a newby to this Bonfire/Carnival thing please enlighten me to the difference between traditional and carnival. I am interested in the more finer points between the societies.
On 15 Nov 2008 at 12:10am c. lergy wrote:
Cheap and Cheerful
Say no more!
On 15 Nov 2008 at 9:13am Musher wrote:
As a result of this thread I have decided to open two new businesses in the town, a ladies hairdressers in Cliffe high st. which will be called "Bad Tempered Old Drama Queens" and a mantel piece shop in Fisher St. called "Traditional Fire Places".
On 15 Nov 2008 at 2:41pm Sportius wrote:
Useful though. Rather those, than poncey shops. Say no more.
On 15 Nov 2008 at 4:56pm baffled of lewes wrote:
Well Enoch, as far as i can gather, Cliffe and Commercial both burn Guy Fawkes and Pope Paul V, have a topical Tableau, process through their respective areas of the town, are very fond of rookies and crackers, have a clergy stand, and have bonfire prayers in their former traditional firesites in the street. Can't for the life of me imagine why Commercial have been described as a carnival society, cos if they qualify as one then surely cliffe do too? I suppose its a case of cliffe never seeing commercial on the fifth and vice versa!!
On 16 Nov 2008 at 6:02pm Enoch wrote:
Thank you baffled of Lewes. This was the way I saw things but started to get a little confused thinking Cliffe had some secret tradition which separated them from the other Societies. Always thought CSBS and CBS were much of a muchness.