On 13 Jul 2020 at 6:54pm Phfellow wrote:
Looks like the Home Secretary has goofed again!
An issue on which ministers keep having to update their plans when it turns out they've got things a bit wrong is the post-Brexit immigration system. Today Home Secretary Priti Patel launched the latest outline of the government's new points-based immigration system, which will come into force from January 2021. One omission from that plan is access for care home workers, who will not be able to use the new fast-track NHS visa. No. 10 explained today that ministers want employers to 'invest more in training and development for care workers in this country', arguing that the independent migration advisers have said that migration will not help solve the staffing shortages in homes. It seems an odd stance to take given the way the care sector has complained of being forgotten and ignored over the past few months. Will ministers be forced to change tack on this in time, too?
On 16 Jul 2020 at 11:58pm pickle wrote:
Itís a tough job, but itís not exactly skilled. Iíd imagine the shortages are because of how awful the pay is, so this could potentially force employers into improving the conditions for their staff members?
On 17 Jul 2020 at 7:06am Hyena wrote:
Pickle, so supporting people with Autism , Mental Health, Dementia and a myriad of other conditions isnít skilled? This complete lack of understanding around what social care workers actually do is just one of the reasons why they are under paid and feel completely undervalued.
On 17 Jul 2020 at 11:19am pickle wrote:
They do a wonderful job, but at first all you need to be able to do it is pass a dbs check and then work towards a NVQ through practical paid training.
I think you can say something is unskilled at the point of entry without attacking the people doing it, no?
On 17 Jul 2020 at 11:49am Hyena wrote:
Not necessarily, the point of entry for many roles require you to be qualified . Hence my point re understanding social care.
On 17 Jul 2020 at 2:16pm David Stanley wrote:
Is it possible in the future people will be horrified by the casual way we allow people to care for our parents and families?
On 20 Jul 2020 at 10:54am Tom Pain wrote:
I agree with David on that point. There's another thing that people will be horrified about~ the casual way statistics are made by the NHS. As of 16July the total number of covid deaths has been revised to 29000 from a previous 45000, quite a drop. Of that total only 1400 didn't have pre existing conditions! On the off chance, even people today might be horrified that the country has been locked down and the economy crippled by something that has killed
0.000006% of the population that are under 60 and had no other health problems.
On 20 Jul 2020 at 11:27am Ferret wrote:
Disappointing to read yet another comment questioning the lockdown, suggesting that the lives of the elderly, diabetics and other more vulnerable people, aren't worth saving. The lockdown dragged on too long for one reason only: the government imposed it too late.
On 20 Jul 2020 at 12:14pm Mark wrote:
Yup. It has hit hardest in the western, anglo-saxon, neo-liberal world, funny that.
On 21 Jul 2020 at 10:23am I say Ding Dong wrote:
If they are so qualified and competent perhaps someone would be kind enough to explain why on several occasions they made monumental cock ups when visiting my father last year. On a number of occasions (different staff) attended and removed his door keys from the key safe, they then entered via a pair of doors that were already unlocked, they spent less than 10 mins with him, including doing their paperwork, and then left - locking both the inner and outer doors behind them - leaving a dazed and confused client locked in a house with no means of exit. On one occasion the keys were left on display as shutting the key safe was beyond these highly qualified staff. On another occasion the carer signed to say all medication had been given. When I checked all 6 tablets were still in the blister pack. (ESCC exonerated her despite our complaints because she was busy and got distracted by her phone). On the hottest day of the year they left the fridge door wide open, on another occasion they left a carving knife in the drainer rack, with the sharp end pointing upwards directly in line with where my father had to reach across to close the window. On another occasion a new weeks tablet pack was due to be started. The carer got confused as the days ran Monday to Sunday, as it was Thursday she decided it would be best to avoid confusion by starting the packet by using Monday's tablets. These carers are not the saviours and angels that many like to think. They are dangerous and as a result in less than 6 months we sacked two different suppliers and now manage far better without them despite my father's mounting medical issues. (many more examples are available!)
On 21 Jul 2020 at 10:55am Mark wrote:
That's private sector health care.
On 21 Jul 2020 at 12:24pm Tom Pain wrote:
I can't see where I said I didn't care about the elderly,diabetics or other vulnerable people. I am elderly,you might think I am vulnerable, I have friends who are too. I find your sneering, holier than thou comment insulting and tactless,ferret. I happen to believe that the lockdown will cause many more deaths and much more suffering than if it hadn't occurred. In fact I think you ought to study those figures and consider them without your political prejudices, I can't stand this government either,but in view of the pharmaceutical affiliations of SAGE I suggest that whoever is in power makes no difference whatsoever.
On 21 Jul 2020 at 1:23pm Hyena wrote:
Ding Dong, maybe improve your recruitment processes? As Mark says private sector health care.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 8:50am Ferret wrote:
I can't understand the logic in suggesting that allowing the virus to spread unchecked could have been a better idea than a national lockdown. How many deaths would have resulted, and how exactly would hospitals have coped? It seems to me that our huge number of excess deaths, worse than any other country of comparable size or larger, is a direct result of failing to impose the lockdown early enough in March. Just prove me wrong, Mr Pain.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 5:07pm Tom Pain wrote:
The virus had already spread and locking down the healthy had no scientific or medical precedent or benefit. Forensic evidence from Spain and France has shown that the virus was about since at least September last year. Have you any idea what would happen if the whole world was locked down every time a corona virus appeared? I think you've been watching too much propaganda, try turning the t.v. off for a few weeks and see how much better you feel. Sweden and Japan coped very well without locking down.
I've just heard that the WHO employed a PR firm to make their "pandemic" measures more palatable,. Hill and Knowlton. Ironically they were the firm who scripted Nariya's tearful and totally lying account of Iraqi atrocities in a Kuwaiti hospital that was part of the justification for the war. Have you ever wondered why the WEF are so involved in a public health matter? Were the WHO consulted on the banking crisis? Do you know an expert who can spin that one for you? I expect you're delighted that everyone will have to wear masks tomorrow and will be forced to share your pathetic victim role.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 7:33pm Ferret wrote:
I can assure you that I do not form my opinions by watching tv or by accessing any other mass media. I study the data, and as a science graduate, I am only interested in evidence based theories, not crackpot conspiracies or fake news. I would really appreciate a link to the "forensic evidence from Spain and France" which you suggest proves that Covid-19 has been around for months before it spread around the world. The weirdest notion is that "locking down the healthy had no scientific or medical precedent or benefit". Since you seem to have missed the point, it was down so that the healthy would not catch the virus, and carry it to those who would not be able to fight it off. Unfortunately for 65,000 of our citizens who would go on to die miserably, the lockdown was brought in two weeks too late. The lesson should have been learnt from the disaster which unfolded in Italy even before it became a major issue here. Please stop spreading this nonsense.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 8:32pm Tom Pain wrote:
29,000 is the latest death count on the NHS website that I saw. Crackpot conspiracy website in your opinion as a science graduate, I suppose. As for links, as a science graduate I would have supposed that you could do a bit of googling for your self,far better than me but I assure you it's there and done by science graduates. If you need any help, I'll be in the stable shovelling my dissertation.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 8:45pm Tom Pain wrote:
British Medical Journal March 2020~A randomised placebo controlled trial in children showed that flu shots increased five fold the risk of acute respiratory infections caused by a group of non influenza viruses including corona viruses. Not being a science graduate, that makes me wonder if a lot of the people who got covid had taken a flu shot. I wonder what you,as a science graduate think? Or is that outside your sphere of expertise?
On 22 Jul 2020 at 8:56pm Ferret wrote:
The lack of a link to this research that no-one in the field has heard of suggests that it's a figment of your imagination, or you read it in the Daily Mail or perhaps the Sun. And now this nonsense about the flu vaccine contributing to infection by Covid-19. What are you, some sort of religious nutter opposed to interfering with nature? Why not let nature take its course? The world's population problems would be solved in a generation.
On 22 Jul 2020 at 11:57pm Tom Pain wrote:
Perhaps you're in the wrong field ferret and in a bit of a panic,a touch of the sun, better get underground after the rabbits. When did the BMJ turn into a religion? I think you'd better get tested quick and don't forget the mask, it would be dreadful if you infected anyone else, I know how much you care. Watch out for the badgers!
On 22 Jul 2020 at 11:59pm Ferret wrote:
On 23 Jul 2020 at 2:55pm Ferret wrote:
I've spent a little time looking into your statements, and decided that you are confusing two or three possible suggestions. One is that the a precursor Covid-19 may have originated in in bats in Wuhan between September and November, and may even have infected locals (Cambridge University research). The mutation which swept around the world probably came later, in December. The first detected European case was in Italy, on February 21st. I'm afraid the media (Sun, Mail etc) latched on to this research to suggest that the virus had been around much earlier. I can't find anything at all to suggest that the flu vaccine somehow facilitates infection by Covid-19, only the opposite, that it may provide some protection. However, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of elderly people who died as a result of Covid-19 infection had also had the flu vaccine last winter, although there's no published data on it yet, so the degree of protction may not be significant.
Let's get the facts before we set off some new social media myth about this terrible pandemic.
On 23 Jul 2020 at 3:11pm Ferret wrote:
Correction: first European cases were reported to the WHO on 21st February. There were 3 cases detected on January 24th in France. These were the first in Europe. Obviously these early cases were infected at some time earlier in January, and all three had been in China recently.
On 23 Jul 2020 at 3:39pm Tom Pain wrote:
Reuters~coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample.june26th 2020.
BBC news 5may 2020~ corona virus Frances first known case was in December 2019
There you are. I can't think for the life of me why you couldn't find it, but I'll refrain from from retorting to your customary condescending rudeness this time. I also remember a friend suffering from a very nasty "virus" in December and looking dreadful.
On 23 Jul 2020 at 4:04pm Ferret wrote:
"Coronavirus" does not mean it is/was Covid-19. They are common. The French case may well be earlier than the three I found. The WHO data I found was from earlier in May. The case you mention was reported in late May. His illness is consistent with infection in late December with possible contact with Chinese tourists involved. I'm not sure this case has been confirmed officially.
On 23 Jul 2020 at 4:17pm Ferret wrote:
Your Reuters report also says..."There was the potential for a false positive due to the virusí similarities with other respiratory infections." How do you think Covid-19 could have got from a Chinese bat to a Barcelona sewer months earlier than it emerged? Time travel maybe?
On 24 Jul 2020 at 1:32pm Tom Pain wrote:
Precisely. It may be wrong. Is the test 100% fool proof?. Not at all. There are so many ifs and buts and maybes about the whole business. The man who invented the PCR test said it was not meant for medical diagnosis and should not be used for that purpose. There's so many things the media does not say. We are all the time being told that this or that science is "settled" but as a science graduate, you must be aware that it s never settled but always developing. If you've looked into this covid 19 muddle of conflicting theories you must have noticed that it has never been isolated, let alone satisfied all three of the Koch postulates. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask...Ad infinitum! Oh yes, now we've got to wear it them again! Magic six foot zones of safety. Magic inviolability to infection if you attend a certain demonstration! Science? It's less believable than voodoo. To repeat myself,locking down the healthy in an epidemic has never been done before,EVER. Common sense explains why. Even government predictions are saying now that the lockdown will probably be responsible for 200,000 deaths! What about the consequences in less developed parts of the world where people live hand to mouth? Incalculable. What about the effect on old people incarcerated in care homes in virtual solitary confinement? One visit a week for half an hour? Go and tell them how caring you are. I've had enough of this sham.
On 24 Jul 2020 at 2:03pm Ferret wrote:
Thankfully my 92 year old mother's care home took a more sensible approach, allowing visits as long as the visitor remained in the garden, wore a mask etc. They also arranged daily Skype calls. They continue to do a great job of keeping her happy and well. I know it hasn't been like that for everyone.
Don't get so upset about it all. The government has made a total mess of it, and PHE hasn't been much better. But in general, people have done a far better job of it, and hopefully will continue to do so in spite of conflicting messages from Johnson and co.
The media speculation and disinformation has not helped morale. Let's just pray for a vaccine before winter. It looks hopeful.
On 26 Jul 2020 at 2:23pm Tom Pain wrote:
Vaccines take a number of years to develop and test in the real world and still have unfortunate and sometimes lethal side effects. Not so in the megalomaniac imagination of Pearly Gates whose ambition is to vaccinate the whole world and damn the consequences. How does he finance this operation? Why the tax exempt foundation racket of course. Give billions to the WHO and similar very publicly. Invest in pharmaceutical concerns privately. The WHO demands the pharmaceutical products. The governments buy them. The shareholders of the companies make a packet. If you have a charitable foundation like clever old Pearly, the dosh goes into that untaxed. Repeat ad infinitum and you have a very nice little earner. Have you noticed that Pearly has been saying that the vaccine will need topping up yearly? An endless cash cow! Not only a confidence racket, but with the threat of endless spikes and other such scares, a protection racket to boot. You can believe the old fox if you like but don't expect me to enjoy being forced to be spiked by his voodoo concoction just because he's scared you into wanting it.
On 29 Jul 2020 at 5:36pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Ahh but more importantly, how many times did Billy Gates go aboard Epsteins "Lolita Express" private jet to his infamous Love Island?