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Brexit - The Uncivil War

On 9 Jan 2019 at 8:05am Dave wrote:
I watched it last night and now Iím really worried.
We are less than pawns in the games they were (and are) playing and the whole Facebook data / voter manipulation thing is absolutely terrifying.
Our futures and those of our children lie in the balance, a second referendum is our only hope now and thatís looking less and less likely all the time.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 8:29am nancy wrote:
A second referendum would be the worst possible outcome. We are leaving the EU in March so just get used to it.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 9:43am Slarty wrote:
I voted remain, but agree another referendum would totally destroy any faith in the political system of this country. Over half the people that voted voted out (even if they did not know what the deal would be) and as a democratic country we have to stick by it.
There is no point asking for the vote to take place until it agrees with your (and my) opinion, that'll get us nowhere.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 11:02am Fluppy wrote:
Itís worth listening to catchup Adrian Chiles BBC Radio 4 ďBrexit: Bewitched, Bothered or BewilderedĒ (Sunday), Returning to his Birmingham roots to catch up with voters he interviewed two years ago to see if their opinions which were mostly hardline Brexit had changed. Funnily enough they mostly have and feel that they voted for something they just didnít fully understand. So based on this small microcosm of voters alone and assuming itís reflective of the nation as a whole then yes we are entitled to another vote now we know whatís at stake.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 11:23am Slarty wrote:
@Fluppy - I was about 50:50, but I voted remain because I didn't know exactly what leave would be and nobody did. But that was the vote that was put out and if people voted for it (even if they didn't know what it would be and believed the lies) then democratically, IMHO, we can't just keep on asking for a vote until the "correct" answer is given.
I do think a vote along the lines of "do we want to leave with no deal" or "do we want to leave with this offer" would be a good idea, but that is why we have an elected government so we don't have to hold a referendum for everything.
And if you want to neutral view of attitudes, the BBC is not the place to look!
On 9 Jan 2019 at 11:26am Ferret wrote:
Of course people who are against a second referendum are wrong. After all, when we elect a government in a general election we never change our minds about them in the following years, do we? According to that idea, democracy is a one-off vote which we are stuck with forever.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 1:35pm Fluppy wrote:
Slarty Iím not asking to keep voting to get the result I want. Clearly this was too complex a subject to have ever been put to a referendum and itís just too big a decision for the populous to have made without the terms being being thrashed out before that vote. And if I canít believe my own ears listening to actual real people in a BBC documentary then where exactly should I be searching for the truth? the Mail or the Express perhaps??
On 9 Jan 2019 at 5:30pm bored2 wrote:
Totally agree Ferret
There are very few remain voters who have looked at the past 3 years and thought "gee, this leave idea is going well and the future looks good. Well done on setting us up for a brighter future" so changed their minds.
However, many people who voted leave have found that the things they were voting for are unrealistic, many being outright lies. They voted for a better life and now they are being told tough, you're getting the opposite. Not allowing people to change their mind in this situation is undemocratic to put it mildly.
@slarty if we need a vote for what type of brexit you're admitting that people didn't know what they were voting for. Given it was 51.9% to 48.1% in first vote you only need 10% minimum for each leave option in your second vote for it to be clear that the most popular option is remain (assumes same total number of voters).
On 9 Jan 2019 at 11:08pm Tom Pain wrote:
Most people don't know what they're letting themselves in for by remaining. We'll get shafted whatever happens. The Commission decides what measures are to be voted on by the EU Parliament, the Members cannot submit bills themselves. Who votes in the commission? Certainly not you or I. They call it democracy but I have another word for it and I don't want a part of it.
On 9 Jan 2019 at 11:48pm Clifford wrote:
What the last two years have been about is a softening up process to prepare us for the next referendum in which we, the EU Commission and our neo-liberal Remainer friends, hope will persuade to vote the right way in the next referendum. We saw it over and over in earlier referendums when, for example, the Lisbon treaty was rejected by Ireland. One of the greatest achievements of the EU Commission is to persuade well-meaning liberals that the EU is some cost little 'internationalist' project. I knew when I heard the result of the 2016 referendum that we would not be allowed to leave.
On 10 Jan 2019 at 9:47am bored2 wrote:
Bit patronising Clifford. It broadly works and has improved living standards and other such things. We're not all ideological tub thumpers who need to worship the EU or have been brainwashed into thinking they're heroes.
Someone has said to you before...There were changes made to the Lisbon treaty between the votes. Specific changes to address the concerns of the voters from the first referendum. Also for the other re-votes. Not sure what your issue is with an organisation listening to what people say when they reject them and coming back with a better deal they like?
"Not allowed to leave" is it the big nasty EU forcing all this internal strife on us that may result in us not leaving? No, it's our useless politicans who have been a joke these past 3 years. At least have the grace to not blame the EU for this farce like everything else.
On 11 Jan 2019 at 11:59am Tom Pain wrote:
I heard it on the wireless last night and I'm really worried,no I'm terrified. That Mr.Churchill wants to stand up to Hitler and he's really nasty, there's no telling what he might do. Can't we have another election and bring back that nice Mr Chamberlain. The whole of Europe has capitulated and we're on our own, it's madness, mummy. What, eh? Phew it was just a bad dream I was having. Thank goodness this is 2019 and all the nasty people have been magically transformed into sweeties by the good wizardsleeves.

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