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Bonfire and Europe

On 1 Nov 2011 at 9:56am Paul Newman wrote:
Clifford firstly I post exclusively under my own name ,secondly the idiot personal abuse I put up with is about as edifying as a dirty protest compared with my assays and it is not appreciated.
On the matter in hand this is the problem, would you open a bank account with your neighbour? I doubt it, you would argue about the overdraft. As for the US allow me to introduce you to the concept of the optimum fiscal unit of which you will know nothing. You will at least understand that UK voters are unlikely to watch Greek Politicians on the Telly debating in Greek in the way the Democrat and Republican parties unite the States. Your assumptions are worth about one Dracma ,I `d say.Perhaps you can tell me something good about the EU ?
On 1 Nov 2011 at 10:06am DFL wrote:
Well, I must say that I'm a bit sad that we can't discuss matters on this site in an orderly and grown up manner without resorting to personal attacks. Why can't we just keep things civilised and put our points forward, after all, we're all entitled to our views even though they may not be to the liking of others.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 10:15am DFL wrote:
And to continue...
I can confirm that I know diddley squat about the "optimum fiscal unit", perhaps you could (briefly) explain that one Paul. Although I've never trusted the Americans, even though our economies are well and truly entwinned(?), they're only interested in getting what they can out of us. As for Greeks, apart from possibly a nice place to holiday, I sort of agree with Sarkosy in that the Greeks may not have been ready to join the euro mechanism in the first place, and now the EU is treading water like mad to put things right - I see a large abyss appearing, which is a shame really, because I do believe that we should have an united Europe, but with all the different cultures etc., it was always going to be a diffult job. Anyway that's me for a bit....
On 1 Nov 2011 at 10:46am Clifford wrote:
Paul - I've already said that I'm one of those lefties who see the EU as a capitalist club. As such I need say nothing good about it. My interest was that Vulture seemed, in his ignorance, to see the EU as the cause of the present capitalist crisis rather than what is going on in the EU as a symptom of it. Doesn't it seem strange even to you that the UK, Europe, the US are going through the same crisis?
On 1 Nov 2011 at 11:09am Paul Newman wrote:
DFL I think I have done well if I have not actually had someone advertising my home address, witless juvenile abuse is constant.
The optimal is really an optimal currency region not fiscal unit oops.It is where benefits of one currency are, in regions that are simply too disparate, outweighed by the disadvantages of exactly the same thing. Disparateness is the key feature and this is why a comparison between the US and the EU a nonsense.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 11:36am Paul Newman wrote:
Clifford ,what you call a capitalist crisis is a global growth rate of 3.2% in which many countries are doing very well and the world`s poor continue to see rises in living standards. We are suffering the fall out of an asset bubble with varying degrees of success. We are helped by having our own currency ,hindered by the size of our structural deficit ,public sector and ageing demographic profile.The EU is also not helping us in several ways IMHO but did not cause the problem.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 11:41am Mercian wrote:
Sounds like an argument for not having the City of London and the North of England in the same currency area.
Witless personal abuse is not confined to lefty posters, as the previous thread revealed. On the other hand, lots of people do argue against straw men rather than the argument in hand (i.e. arguing against a fictional socialist that they have in their head rather than the post in question - and Paul you are as guilty of this as anyone).
(Incidentally Paul have you read the Cliffe programme - on p45 (I think) there is an explanation of the roots of bonfire, which it says go back far beyond Fawkes, Protestantism or indeed England).
It is also unfair for anyone on here to claim that they represent majority opinion, or that of the man in the street. If PN did, then the Conservatives would have won far more the votes of slightly more than one in three of the population.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 12:26pm Clifford wrote:
Paul Newman - Lewes's Man in Denial of the Year, 2011.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 12:39pm nump up tee do wrote:
bleh. hang 'em all
On 1 Nov 2011 at 1:24pm Paul Newman wrote:
Mercian is it possible that there are ties between Bradford and London that are stronger than those between Bradford and Athens? Perhaps, perhaps, the issue fades into the ability to pool exchequer revenues doesn `t it which is where we are with the EU.
On 1 Nov 2011 at 1:42pm Paul Newman wrote:
Alright Mercian I give in .Bonfire Societies shall henceforth abandon all references to burning the Pope, blowing up his mercenary in effigy commemorating the Marian martyrs, the war dead and their own histories and doing so on day that was a historic rival to Halloween the Christian and previously Pagan ceremony of Samhain. Those with delicate sensibilities may now attend the new Winter Community Festival of Nothing in Particular except some nebulous wish to be tolerant communal and inoffensive to Harriet Harman and Polly Toynbee on a bad day.
Actually can we include a note of apology to Phillip of Spain and Napoleon and (ahem) The Germans, for failing to see our 'destiny in Europe' at the time. All better now ? Good.
Don`t pretend that is not what you would prefer and you are not alone.

On 1 Nov 2011 at 2:18pm Clifford wrote:
I know how much Paul hates the Guardian so, while Osborne tries to blame what he and his friends are doing to the economy on the EU, here's a para from the Guardian:

'This effort to portray Europe as the source of the British economic crisis is wholly misplaced. Despite the crisis, countries such as Germany and France have nearly recovered the entire level of output lost in the recession, yet the British economy remains way below its pre-recession level, even after the latest quarterly growth. It is the British economy that is a drag on Europe, not vice versa.'
On 1 Nov 2011 at 2:26pm bastian wrote:
quite so, largely because of our bizarre relationship with americas economy..ever felt like a fall guy for a yank?
On 1 Nov 2011 at 2:32pm Mercian wrote:
PN _ I refer you to my previous post "arguing against a fictional socialist that they have in their head rather than the post in question".
Meanwhile you can join me on the annaul festival of Lewes going barmy in the streets, blowing things up and sticking two fingers up to authority, be it the Pope or David Cameron or Ed Miliband. I totally disagree wtih your blimpish retired colonel appraoch to the festiviites, but I would defend to the death your right to act as such.

On 1 Nov 2011 at 7:18pm Dingo wrote:
Newman likes to hand it out, but like most bullys he can`t stand it when it`s thrown right back at him.
On 2 Nov 2011 at 8:21am expat two wrote:
Agreed Dingo, this forum has suffered his nasty and abusive vitriol levelled at those who dare disagree with him (or, as he laughably describes them all, 'marxists'), since he came, uninvited and unwanted, DFL. I see it every time I drop into this site. And yet, here he is again, crying 'foul' when it gets returned in like. He's like a Richard Littlejohn with SMS and mood swings.
They're well recognised traits of the egomaniac though; attention seeking, contemptuous of others views and blaming everyone (or anybody) else for the problems they bring upon themselves - a bit like the tories really, n'est pas?. Maybe I'm wrong though - it could just be another example of the well documented fit between right wing beliefs and paranoid delusion. We just have to suffer these people and their fantasy realities, its all part of life's rich tapestry, alas.
On 6 Nov 2011 at 7:09pm NowTorieler wrote:
Its a test message

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