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A New Hope

On 21 Oct 2016 at 9:11pm Newms wrote:
As the pound plummets the tide is turning against Brexit, this is showing in polls and the Whitney by election .That was inevitable, we are now in a real world position and the Brexit case was largely a mist of xenophobic nonsense the second "doing things" replaced "saying things" Brexit has
nothing to contribute.
It will take only one event to crystallise this undercurrent of fear and opposition , the window is closing and the desire to blunder on immediately must be read in that context. Remain is not just a side of the referendum it is constituency of moderate evidence based political consensus powerful beyond numbers uniting business universities , schools , almost every growth sector in the economy and on line comment . Its members are Conservative Liberal Labour but all have a commitment to truth and shades of the Internationalist ‘moderated market’ model that has delivered peace prosperity and civilisation to a continent that had known little but war and poverty.

If the polls are showing determined majority National opposition to Brexit and we are already in recession( quite likely ) will Ms May really plunge the country into chaos debt and poverty?
Really ?

On 21 Oct 2016 at 9:48pm Clifford wrote:
Paul, what's 'internationalist' about an exclusive inward looking European neo-liberal project? 'Internationalism' has always meant the entire globe, not an Eurocentric capitalist cartel.
On 21 Oct 2016 at 11:13pm Newms wrote:
In as much as International trade works (which, under the WTO , is not that much, as you have at other times said ) it has been due to the pressure brought to bear by the EU and the USA. The EU has been pivotal in bringing down projectionist tariffs around the world since the 70s

BTW- I notice how the ultra Nationalists of BNP UKIP and Brexit Conservative are in an odd symbiotic relationship with Corbyn`s Commies . He is frequently accorded respectful nods , partly because he was so appalling during the campaign but I think it goes deeper .
The hard left like to remind everyone how many of their number were carted off to be shot by the Nazis, fair enough ( as were many Nazis of the Strasser wing ) .
They like to forget how many switched between these two revolutionary movements both of whom opposed and detested the centre and offered a fraudulent noble existence , an escape form the self
It’s a distant echo but an intriguing one

On 22 Oct 2016 at 12:54am The Empire Strikes Back wrote:
On 22 Oct 2016 at 8:11am mark2 wrote:
Newms, I am so sick of careless inflammatory and inaccurate phrases like 'Corbyn's Commies'. All it does is make the user lose respect.How someone can even resort to such puerile slogans whilst attempting to be some kind of political commentator is beyond me. It smacks of rabble rousing rather than reasoned debate. The Labour party has indeed shifted somewhat in the past year - away from the sharp lurch to the right that has been apparent in all political parties for several years. It is now a moderate Labour party getting on with the job of trying to develop kinder, more reasoned policies that will help to alleviate the dangerous fissures in our society. The opportunistic and unprofessional behaviour by Conservative politicians in recent months has only exacerbated real anger amongst the amongst the disadvantaged in our
society. I think even the present right wing manifestation of the Conservative
Party under May is aware of this. Slowly their eyes are being opened to the the dangers of kicking the poor with zero hours contracts and job uncertainty. Certainly the present unusual investigation by HM inspectors into the seemingly shady world of Artemis seems to be evidence of Establishment alarm.
The problem though is the real lack of decent fairminded reportage in this country. The overt bias towards the no longer working neo liberal economy model and its promoters would be laughable if it were not so corrosive.
Newms, all the while you use cheap slogans of the gutter press you can have no respect. it is lazy, insulting and dangerous; you sound like a cypher
for the right rather than a thinking man.
On 22 Oct 2016 at 11:58am Newms wrote:

McDonnell has on many l occasions described himself as Marxist and has made his belief in the planned economy quite clear and recently . Seamus Milne a close associate has frequently defended Stalin .British Leninism is a competitor to British Social Democracy not a new version of it that is why they are content to lose the election before it happens . Bioth Corbyn and McDonnell have quite clearly stated that this is their root on many many occasions
The result - Labour are currently 18% behind a bitterly divided mid term Conservative Party .
Ken Livingstone , another ally sympathised with the Workers Revolutionary Party, one of the nastiest political cults Britain produced in the 20th century.Its leader, Gerry Healy took money from Saddam Hussein and Colonel Gaddafi, and ordered his followers to spy on Iraqi dissidents in London and pass the information to the Iraqi embassy. Livingstone stuck with Healy to the end.
Corbyns hatred of the West an Britain when it acts with the West come from good old fashioned Communist / Marxist analysis . That is why he sides with the IRA Putin and even , to some extent ISIS which he made quite clear he thinks is no worse than Israel at a meeting about anti Semitism , for god`s sake
Only last week with Putin slaughtering civilians in appalling circumstances he expressed the opinion that the USA was no better

It doesn`t matter what you or I think . Corbyn has destroyed the Labour Party a Party whose founding purpose was to represent working people IN PARLIAMENT not to sit around with students going nowhere. He missed the first day of the Remain campaign and convinced 45% of Labour voters he was on the side of Brexit an event that is going to screw British working people in ways they do not yet understand but soon will
If you mean well , if you have a shred of conscience you would be trying to get the Labour Party back in the game . Do that and I will vote for it
Support Corbyn and you are the enemy of us all

On 22 Oct 2016 at 2:12pm Blue Harvest wrote:
The force is definitely not strong with this one.
On 22 Oct 2016 at 5:49pm Angel wrote:
Would that be the same Saddam Hussein and Colonel Qaddafi that were both supported by the West, then vilified, then, in the case of Qaddafi, rehabilitated (best mates with T Blair) and welcomed back to the international fold, then became the villain again with the Arab uprising across the Middle East.
On 23 Oct 2016 at 9:58pm Clifford wrote:
A fascinatingly confused analysis, Paul. Do do you think Putin is a Marxist? I've always been an anti-Marxist because of its authoritarianism (as Bakunin pointed out, warning of the dictatorship 'intellectuals' would inevitably bring in) but you seem to use it as a very broadbrush term to damn everyone you don't like.

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