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Tory cuts.You ain`t seen nothing yet!

On 27 Mar 2015 at 10:31pm Cut to the bone wrote:
In case you were wondering where Cameron and Osborne`s 12 million pounds worth of cuts were going to fall,details of which they have been unwilling to disclose, in case it will negatively affect their re election prospects, then you may find this this interesting. Leaked documents from the Department for Work and Pensions also suggest a regional benefits cap, taxing disability benefits and reducing eligibility for the carers' allowance.
Industrial Injuries Compensation Scheme - could be replaced by companies providing industrial injury insurance policy for employees. Any that did not would become members of a default national industrial injuries scheme, similar to the programme for asbestos sufferers. DWP predicted saving - £1bn
Carer's Allowance - this could be restricted to those eligible for Universal Credit. Leaked documents suggest about 40% of claimants would lose out. DWP predicted saving - £1bn
The contributory element of Employment and Support Allowance and Job Seekers Allowance - currently claimants who have paid enough National Insurance contributions can get the benefits with little means testing; DWP analysis suggests 30% of claimants, over 300,000 families, would lose about £80 per week. DWP predicted saving - £1.3bn in 2018/19
Disability benefits - Disability Living Allowance, Personal Independence Payments and Attendance Allowance (for over 65s who have personal care needs) would no longer be paid tax free. Possible saving - £1.5bn per annum Council Tax Support - to be incorporated into Universal Credit. Possible saving - not known
Council Tax Support - to be incorporated into Universal Credit. Possible saving - not known
Child Benefit - Limiting the benefit to the first two children. Possible saving IFS estimates £1bn saving per annum in the long run but little initially
Regional Benefit Caps - The £23,000 limit would vary in different parts of the country, with for instance Londoners receiving the top amount due to the higher cost of living. Possible saving - not known and dependent on where levels were set
On 27 Mar 2015 at 10:38pm Oppressed tax payer wrote:
And your point is ?
On 27 Mar 2015 at 10:39pm True blue wrote:
Makes a change to see all those feather bedded spongers and whingers suffering a bit, instead of us hard working tax payers.Vote Tory.
On 27 Mar 2015 at 10:40pm Phfellow2004 wrote:
What speculative nonsense! Do not believe everything you hear at the school gate or the gutter press!
On 27 Mar 2015 at 10:45pm Cut to the bone wrote:
The extract is from the BBC website,hardly the gutter press.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 12:37am Give the Dog a Bone? No wrote:
Here's the BBC article (thats if it works, it doesn't seem to half the time) Not that many people here are that interested that the Tories a busy bleeding this Country dry..

Check it out here »
On 28 Mar 2015 at 6:13am Country Boy wrote:
All the time that we continue to see programmes showing idle layabouts drinking, smoking and whinging in front of a television paid for by the state any policy to reduce or remove benefits makes perfect sense.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 7:51am Victorian Values wrote:
The workhouse is on it's way - so is the private mad house
On 28 Mar 2015 at 9:08am Paul Newman wrote:
None of the ideas under discussion are in themselves unreasonable as “ideas” to be costed, but none of them are policy. To be honest such has been the popularity of the benefit cuts made so far I wouldn't be surprised if the Conservative Party are responsible for the leak.

It presents the Labour /SNP coalition with a problem, where are their cuts?
Ed Balls, a man with personal responsibility for bankrupting the country has, this far been taken at face value when he has claimed to have a fiscally responsible programme. There is absolutely nothing in his history to suggest he is telling the truth. If he is , then where are his cuts going to fall,where are Labour`s proposals or does he plan to risk everyone`s home with rocketing interest rates as our credibility, painfully won , is trashed.
I think we all know the answer to that .
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:00am my town wrote:
yes cut to the bone you are right , We all have big cuts on the way . with jobs cuts for some . its ok Cameron and his boy friend Osborne how will still be giving it all the bull sh#t . But you will still get the same people that get sucked in by them .
( we do not need to have cuts ) stop sending so much money a board half it to start with cut
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:07am Pete Dosh wrote:
Last week Britain was the second wealthiest Country in Europe & this week we're Skint & then we're back up there..
Austerity.. its ALL just a Tory 'Con' trick
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:33am bastian wrote:
it's so easy to kick the poor-they are used to it.
On the carers allowancthis is not a benefit-this is paid to people who have ahd to give up their full time job to care for a sick or dying relative or close friend for which they must be caring for 35 hours a week or more and is paid at £60-£109 per week (work the maths out for an hourly rate of pay) it already saves the governement billions in nursing home fees and the person who loses out is the carer who has had to give up paid employment. They do pay your stamp and with the new flat rate pension coming in this cut to this [so called] benefit is going to hit yet more women VERY hard-as they tend to have only just gone back to work full time after having kids and then in their fifties end up looking after granny-this does not leave enough time to make up those missing contributions before the soon to beage 68 retring age.
And that is what is wrong with too many middle aged, Eton educated, white, males in government.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:36am Paul Newman wrote:
My Town - The Coalition record on employment is absolutely brilliant and over half the new jobs are actually going to British people for the first time since New Labour opened the flood gates.
I agree with you that to actually increase foreign aid from o.4% of GDP to 0o.7% of GDP was a arrogant and wasteful but sadly it was a sop the Liberals would not forego . Lewes is full of the sort of people who like top pat themselves on the back about foreign aid . Blame them.
Peter Dosh - We re not the second wealthiest country in Europe but our economy has outperformed everyone`s except Germany which is why so many immigrants are arriving . This is not good for us especially but it does increase the overall size of the economy and thereby decrease the relative size of the deficit painlessly .

I wish people would remember that we would running a deficit the same size as Greece in 2010 with more sub prime lending than the US and a financial services dependent economy. The Laboutr Party had horribly misjudged spending ( AGAIN...) and since that time a diet of lies has spewed from the public sector unions designed to obscure the simple maths of the position.

Its just no good pretending there is a magic money well , every penny spent has to be earnt and borrowing is not without cost or risk. we have been very very lucky to have got away with such squander in the last few tears when there has actually been bugger all austerity.
Still there was no perfect way forward in my view the coalition has been a superb success
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:40am Mavis wrote:
@PeteDosh its only because all the other European countries are skint it makes us the best !!
But the state cant just pay for everything, people have to take responsibility for themselves these days, there are simply too many of us for free loaders, in or out of Parliament.
Now people can take their pension pots and spend it on what ever they like, only creates another huge problem later on when they've run out of money and need caring for.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 10:49am Paul Newman wrote:
Bastian , every cut hits someone , this is not policy it is an idea and the sort of issues you raise are, in my view, good points. More broadly I agree with you that it is too easy to make cuts in the unpopular welfare budget and too difficult to take on the real black hole with is Public sector overemployment , pensions and over pay .
The problem is the Unions have made it known they are ready to bring the country down if their goodies are touched and we depend on stability to finance our vast National Debt. With VAT rises ruled out , the NHS ring fenced for political reasons there is nowhere to go
It nauseates me but I have no better ideas and don`t start telling me that rich bankers can me made to pay because it’s just a lie .
So what cuts would you make in the real world ?
Who should suffer ?
What about cutting £10 billion from international aid , re forming the Barnett Formula , means testing winter fuel payments and much of the rest of the oldster bribes …if young people would engage in politics instead of the Russell Brand idiot version of politics then they could vote for a fair deal . I wish they would .
the coalition has had to deal with the word as it is not the world as we would like it to be
On 28 Mar 2015 at 11:36am Mark wrote:
Paul Newman... Do you actually believe the cobblers you come out with (which would make you fairly daft) or do you deliberately set out to mislead people?
I'm a frontline nurse. My, and my colleague's, wages are a politically-sensitive issue. People tend to have a soft spot for "the angels". Despite this, I haven't had a wage increase above the rate of inflation in 8 years. The rate at which junior nurses are paid is, by now, so appalling that shifts can't be covered and staff regularly work alongside agency nurses (who are being paid a market rate) and are working as well as they can manage in an unfamiliar workplace. I'm sure you can work out what an inefficient use of resources this is and, believe you me, we're not ever overstaffed. Why do you think it now takes 4-6 hours to be treated in most A&E departments?
I shudder to think what must be going on in less politically-sensitive public services.
Unions doing anything about this mess? You must live on another planet? Industrial action of any meaningful sort is illegal in this country.
I'm not going to bother trying to discuss unemployment with you because you always just disappear from a thread when I do.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 12:14pm Paul Newman wrote:
Mark in the last three years I have been made redundant when the small Company I worked at ( and had more or less started ) hit problems I shall not bother recounting . In order to get back into the employment market ( having nothing to help me ) I was obliged to take a job in Essex and stay in a dump, away from my family ,for a year while that Company also died.

Finally I was able to retrain blag and scrape my way into much lower paid employment in Haywards Heath a month from losing our house . Phew !
I have three young children, can you imagine how difficult it has been for me and my wife ( who contrary to the trolls foul insults btw is beautiful )
During this grim period as I have shambled up to the school to pick up my boys I have often met other people in similar spots.
You would be amazed at the desperate situations in the quiet roads of Lewes and amazed what people have done when they had no choice .
As I have said I understand very well the hidden story behind the unemployment figures the question is do you ?
Now you have some perspective on the real world would you like to repeat your complaint that the rest of us don`t feel an automatic pay rise just for doing your job is reasonable as an expectation at this time
PS As for disappearing from threads, having been asked to consider, the ugliness of my wife, the nastiness of my marriage, the possibility I am a child molester ( ugh) and much more I feel I am remarkably good humoured , how would you like it ?
On 28 Mar 2015 at 12:24pm Mark wrote:
Don't blame you a scrap on that one. I felt that that comment was utterly despicable. I hope that the clown felt mortified when he sobered up.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 1:00pm Southover Queen wrote:
Paul, you haven't responded to Mark's substantive point, and that was that public service pay, and particularly NHS pay, is now so distorted that the famous free market we're all supposed to worship is bleeding the system dry. Most NHS trusts will be in the red this year, or teetering on it, and a big part of that is because core employees in the system - such as nurses - cannot survive on the paltry wages the state decrees. So what is happening is that they're leaving to go to agencies where they're paid vastly more, with limited responsibility and an ability to choose their working hours and shift. It's not just inefficient because they aren't permanent members of the workplace, it's madly expensive. So even if you think nurses are rolling in it, sheer practicality would make you think that their pay needs addressing.

For this government much of the public service is the enemy; I'd hazard a guess that the fact that they are the only unionised workforce left is part of the reason for that. Maybe that's why some DWP worker has released these musings about future cuts.

There is one stunning success after five years of this lot, and that's the ability to demonise the poorest and least able in our society. I have a friend who has quite a severe disability. She is determined to make her own way, but she needs help to do it. Taxing her disability benefit would simply mean that she'd give up the struggle, because it's very expensive being disabled and very expensive doing a high-powered job when you have severe mobility difficulties. It's a terrific example of badly thought through and punitive thinking, and sadly completely predictable from IDS.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 1:28pm Localperson wrote:
Paul, I have no doubt that your wife is beautiful and am sorry that Trolls have been insulting the female members of your family, based on what they look like. It is completely unacceptable. Why, therefore, do you do that to other people?
On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:10pm Mark wrote:
And if you have experienced all this insecurity, why on earth didn't you consider re-training for the blissful, never-never land of milk and honey that is public service? You didn't, I presume, because you're aware that things aren't always how they are painted in the Daily Mail.
Insecurity and instability is one of the main failings of laissez-faire capitalism. During the post-war period, everybody forgot during the winter of discontent that during the period when the UK was a strongly socialist country with consensus politics that the Tories subscribed to(1945-1979), we had the longest period of sustained stable high economic growth that there has ever been in our entire history. We didn't experience recessions.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:10pm Paul Newman wrote:
I cannot stop you posting but you may take it I don`t read your sh1t any further than to establish who it is

On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:33pm Paul Newman wrote:
Mark-That's more than enough about me. I hardly know where to start with someone who thinks we could have gone on with Callaghan Scargill and old Labour . You are occupying a position not represented anywhere within mainstream politics and I see no need to argue with a phantom.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:38pm Paul wrote:
SQ - I am not ignoring you but i have to go out ,I have always found you to be interesting on the subject of the NHS and I `ll have a go at it later if thats ok.
Can we establish one thing though. Is the NHS there to provide health at the lowest cost to the taxpayer possible and the only thing that matters is results for patients.
Would you agree with that statement ?
On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:52pm bastian wrote:
cuts hurt the young, the old and the mentally ill. End of. Some people cannot look after them selves. Get over it. It is uncivilised to just slag them off as scroungers, they make up the largest part of the benfits system, not those who are unemployed. Also beaware of the unemployment figures, they are smattered with people who have set up insecure temorary buisinesses-it happened in the 1980s to, and sadly they will all be over by Christmas for many people.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 2:56pm Southover Queen wrote:
That's two statements.

"Is the NHS there to provide health at the lowest cost to the taxpayer possible ?"

No. Because we have to establish first what "health" means, and where the boundaries lie. An enormous amount is being wasted at the moment because acute clinical care is not dovetailing with chronic community care.

"The only thing that matters is results for patients"

Yes, once we've agreed what the boundaries are. However that almost certainly means treating people working within/for the NHS with respect and paying them fairly. Someone who is worried about paying the rent/mortgage (or worried about even being able to afford a home in the first place) or who is too tired to think is not going to be able to give good care. Ideological reforms just don't help, particularly when they aren't part of the electoral mandate.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 3:32pm my town wrote:
my point still stand we do not need to do big cuts like can Cameron and Osborne want to do . cut sendING aid a board by 50% this year 75% next . I know all the brown bread and muesli in Lewes would not like it but they are very short sighted . We send aid to india . which is not right . when they can spend millions on a space program . yet there s young children here which have to travel aboard to get medical help . Because the n h s have not got the money. This can not be right . p.s no I will not vote lab
On 28 Mar 2015 at 4:04pm puzzled wrote:
Before any of you start criticising the government have a hard look at some of the posts on here and the replies. Frankly you are no different than them, so give it a rest and just agree to disagree. Amen.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 4:10pm bastian wrote:
it is true that those who work in social services, schools and hospitals need a stable ground of their own to work from. Over the past 20 years there have been so many white papers on changes in all of these fields that the people on the grund don't know which way to tern to please who ever is in power at the time. They come out of it looking ineffectual, when infact they do an amazing job considering the battle field it has become. This is all down to ideology-there is no waste and a lot of need, not want in the NHS, educationa nd social services. It has nothing to do with peopel not looking after them selves, it has alot to do with governments movng the goal posts every five minutes which is like playing god with ordinary peoples lives without understanding the real consequences because it's all just numbers on an excel sheet.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 4:55pm Mark wrote:
@SOT. I said nothing about Scargill or Callaghan. I made the simple observation that according to certain measures (GDP growth and stability) we had a healthier economy pre-1979. The solution to the problems in industrial relations that developed during that winter could have been fixed without resort to 3 decades of hammering the already impoverished.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 5:38pm skepticalgreen wrote:
Callaghan and Scargill were arch enemies and shared very little in outlook. Why do Tories feel the need to constantly falsify political history. The endless repetition of the lie that the deficit was caused by Brown government's over spending is a good example. No matter how many times it is repeated there will still be those of us who remember that it was caused by a decision to bail out the banks because of their exposure to the sub prime and other financial crises. The Conservative Party agreed with this at the time and continued the policy of QE but since then have endlessly repeated the untruth that it was caused by excessive public spending. Some also recall that it was Brown and Darling flying to the US and persuading Obama and the Fed to pursue a similar strategy when they were wavering that saved us from an even bigger international disaster. The difference in policy at the last election was that Darling wanted to reduce the deficit at about half the rate - i.e. taking much longer to avoid the risk of a double dip recession. Turns out he was spot on but Milliband and Balls are so scared of the media that they don't have the guts to say so. The sub prime fiasco and the failure to regulate collaterised debt instruments and other financial smoke and mirrors techniques was due to the Labour Party under both Blair and Brown continuing and failing to counteract the Thatcherite culture of light touch regulation and kowtowing to markets and the financially powerful
On 28 Mar 2015 at 5:50pm Paul Newman wrote:
The NHS is an Ideological Fossil
It is absurd to talk about ideological attacks on the NHS which exists in its current form only for ideological reasons. It was pushed through opposed by the moderate Labour Party ,Liberals and Conservatives. Bevan was of the far left when of post war Labour had close links with the Soviet Union ( that Bevan himself recanted ).
Other countries have a civilized health service so lets not pretend that the choice is the soviet style behemoth we have or people expiring on the street . There are numerous other models.

Cheerleaders for the staus quo are all ultra left wing beneficiaries of its largesse , I am afraid their voice must be largely discounted on Turkeys / Christmas grounds but they show the two problems :

1 Vested Union Interest
2 The ideological last stand
The Long View
Peering through the propaganda what can we see . Health spending up from £38.5 billion to £132.3 billion over the past 30 years. As a proportion of all public spending minus debt interest and social security – “public service spending” – it’s gone from 15.5 to 28.4 per cent. The Institute for Fiscal Studies’ says the D O H budget will end up increased by 6.2 per cent, in real terms, over the five years to 2015 -16 For all the other departments, the average outcome is a cut of 15.3 per cent. This is largely a transfer of wealth form the young to the old which is to say to the most affluent section if the population by far
So we can see that an ever expanding cost is slowly strangling our ability to pay for education, defence, training , housing infrastructure .
Employment terms for the insiders unknown outside this USSR over here,with 1,300,000 privileged people employed it is a prodigious middle class union
With half the budget spent on staffing, a more efficient NHS must mean a smaller workforce and there we meet the “Vested Interest “ problem whilst everyone else on the country is required to do more with less the NHS workforce is now the largest it’s ever been, rising by 1.7% in the last year alone
Its is going the wrong way.
The Police force by way of contrast have sustained a 20% hit and yet managed to reduce crime .
Reform is inevitable and the question not iuf but what and when here is where the”Ideological last stand “ has tried to forbid discussion

The Privatisation Lie
The share of the NHS budget spent on private companies, charities and other organisations has risen from 8.5% to just 9.1%. , patients offered choice of hospital treatment has fallen from 49% to 38% – the coalition has actually failed to reform the NHS .
Money cannot endlessly be diverted form the young and productive to the old and so we need more sources of funds and more competition The only way forward . That means real private tendering and elements of insurance or payment
Obviously having to exist is world a little more like the one that pays for n it all is something the insiders hate but if patients are the point then we either face a collapse in services or we have no choice but to move away from the Soviet model The blob of Health will try to bog you down with details but that is the truth and you either side with the patients or the Unions.
I side with the patients although I understand the unwillingness of the supply side to do the same
On 28 Mar 2015 at 6:06pm Paul Newman wrote:
'No matter how many times it is repeated there will still be those of us who remember that it was caused by a decision to bail out the banks'
I have shown this to be nonsense on more than one occasion. the debt interest on the total spent on refinancing the Banks is about £5billion pa out of 1.5 trillion or so of public spending (o.3%) . This is now reduced due to sales of shares.
The policy of QE is to do with demand management and liquidity and has nothing to do with the bank bailout
You really have to get a grip of the basic maths here its not that complicated , as for Darlings plan we have ended up slowing spending much slower than he wanted to whilst avoiding a credit run. Good stuff I think
PS-Those figures on NHS spending are adjusted btw ( natch)
On 28 Mar 2015 at 7:00pm skeptical green wrote:
PN illustrated my point brilliantly. The National audit office says the cost of the bailout was £850 billion. Of course the whole of that does not fall into the current year's budget deficit which is the difference between the goverment's outgoings and the monies it will receive and I was not pretending that it did. The debt has to be serviced as PN says but if the Government wishes to be viewed as solvent internationally it also has to be paid down.
On 28 Mar 2015 at 7:07pm Country Boy wrote:
I'll tell you where some public service cuts can be made. I am a private contractor to a large public sector organisation. Every single member of my team is marked man for man by a public sector worker!
On 28 Mar 2015 at 7:49pm Marked man wrote:
That's so they can keep an eye on you
On 28 Mar 2015 at 7:49pm Boris wrote:
I think the problem you have here Paul is that you scare the majority on the forum with your facts and opinions. They like many in this country know what you and the coalition are saying is true but just can't bring themselves to admit it,yet, that may well change by the time they get into the booth.
Skepticalgreen, let me explain it like this, the Labour party were spending money like water, just as they all ways do only this time instead of taxing hard working people to fund their spending utopia they borrowed the money instead. When the credit crunch hit, the money tap was turned off and we were left in the crap.
The reason that both the parties are going into this election telling us that there will be cuts is that the countries finances have still not recovered from those borrow and spend days of the Labour party. The more that Milliband refuses to admit responsibility for the financial state of the country ( like he did on Thursday night ) the harder it will be to convince people to vote for him.
I went into a book makers today and placed a £10 bet on the Torys winning the election out right. ( I got 8 to 1 ) It was Thursday night that convinced me of this, Milliband is basing his whole campaign around telling people that they are worse off, the NHS is worse off, the country is worse off. The problem he has is that he has no figures to back any of these claims up. The Torys and the Lib Dems on the other hand do have all the figures and over the next 5 weeks will be ramming them home. Also I don't believe the polls that we see in our papers every day, I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind can put their hand on their heart and say that at this point in time the country would be better off with a Labour government. There is nothing out there to back that theory up and the people in the maginals will see it.

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Harveys 42:132

Just noticed. TP started "Quote of the Moment", although it's hard to understand what it's for. more
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