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The "Hard Left".

On 1 Sep 2015 at 1:15am True Labour wrote:
I think that the railways should be in public hands,the utilities should be run for the benefit of the British public not a rich global elite.I believe that decent affordable public housing,a job, healthcare and education are a human right and should be paid for out of public funds.I believe our elderly people should be treated with dignity and respect and that we all have a responsibility to one another.I believe that the broadest shoulders should bear the greatest burden and should pay their fair share of taxation. They call me ,and those that agree with me the "Hard Left".Why? Were the founders of the Labour party or Harold Wilson for example, who believed in the same things I do, regarded as "Hard Left" by anyone other than the CIA and the British secret service who were spying on him?I`m not "Hard Left" I`m True Labour and so are many thousands more of us throughout the country.Now we have a candidate for leader who we can truly support,someone to put the party and the country back on track,that person is Jeremy Corbyn,(he`s not "Hard Left" either!
On 1 Sep 2015 at 2:24am Zzz.. wrote:
The right have successfully managed to shift our perception of the centre ground. What we now think of as the centre ground used to be thought of as right wing.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 6:54am Paul Newman wrote:
What shifted percections was the collapse of the experiment in this country at the end of the 70s, the failure of the planned economic model all over the world and the triumph of capitalism in lifting the word`s poor out of poverty. Amongst the failed policies of the 70s were the huge top rates which were found to lose money and Nationlaised Railways which were a puiblic joke for years.
I would point out that the Unions who ran the Labour Party at the time did indeed have close links with the KGB and to defend the Soviet Union was commonplace for the left even that time.( Amazing I know )
Jeremy Corbyn is on the extreme left wing of British ito the point where he will be virtually unable to assemblea shadow cabinet or indeed find any MP`s who will be able to publicly support him .
He was the fourth choice of the hard left of Labour btw its just hysterical

On 1 Sep 2015 at 7:25am Englishman wrote:
True Labour: Thank you for reminding us of the words from all the Labour Party Political Broadcasts we have endured over the years.
What will happen when all the "broad shoulders" have had enough of propping up your socialist paradise, and emigrate?
On 1 Sep 2015 at 7:30am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
"the triumph of capitalism in lifting the word`s poor out of poverty".
When did that happen then, Paul?
It must have been when I was on holiday or something, because I seem to have missed it.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 8:34am Paul Newman wrote:
The forces unleashed by capitalism have provided reduced global poverty , between 1970 and 2006 from 26.8% to 5.4%. This is due to the arrival or the market economy in Asia China India and Africa. If you google the figures you can find the source I forget now but they are solid and reputably based.
These people Corbyn who, as you would see form his Oxford Debate (Socialism works ) believes in Clause 4 would sacrifice.
Glad I could bring you up to speed
On 1 Sep 2015 at 9:29am notforthelikesofus wrote:
One of the biggest issues we face on the left is getting the message across that socialism is the intelligent and forward looking socio-economic system. The fusion of media, corporates and the right wing political class has created a veil that makes it very difficult to have intelligent debates about the present and future direction of our communities and the economic system we use to fund them.
I agree that Corbyn has breathed life back into the Labour party and my hope for the next parliament is for Labour to forget about a majority but mobilise the 'left' to get a significant core vote that will enable a coalition of Labour, Green, Lib Dem and SNP.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 9:39am Facts for Newman wrote:
Ah yes. This is the same capitalism that will strip the world of its natural resources completely within the next 100 years. Akin to a virus or a cancer that will not stop multiplying until it has destroyed the host body; in this case the earth. I could give you lots of other examples as to why capitalism is not working but that one seems quite powerful to start with. There is a meeting i wouldn't miss if I were you.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 9:41am Auntie Aviator wrote:
God knows what Clement Atlee and Ernest Bevin would have made of Corbyn's foreign policy.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 10:50am Auntie Aviator wrote:
"This is the same capitalism that will strip the world of its natural resources completely within the next 100 years."
Whereas one can look at the natural environment of the former Soviet Union .....
I think you'll find it's human needs and wants that are the problem, not "capitalism".
On 1 Sep 2015 at 12:02pm True Labour wrote:
That well known socialist Harold Macmillan commenting on Thatcher`s selling off our utilities.

Watch the video »
On 1 Sep 2015 at 12:12pm True Labour wrote:
Greg Wise gives his thoughts on tax evasion live on daytime TV - HMRC are morally bankrupt -

Watch the video »
On 1 Sep 2015 at 1:46pm mutter wrote:
I wonder why people always point to the former USSR when anyone mentions 'The Left' instead of the Scandinavian countries which operate on broadly leftish, socialist principles.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 2:22pm Auntie Aviator wrote:
I'm a big fan of the Scandinavian countries. But it's a funny sort of socialism which produces Ikea, Volvo, Ericsson and Spotify, has very open and flexible labour markets, and in which one family (the Wallenbergs) have huge holdings in most of the big companies.
Capitalism is a really bad way of organising things, but it's better than anything else that has been tried. However that doesn't mean that the anglo-american, highly financialised form of capitalism is its best variety. There are lots of different types of capitalism, and the Scandinavian 'coordinated market' variety is the best.
It's worth noting, by the way, that the Swedes have been steadily dismantling their welfare state for a few years now and have been busy electing centre-right governments. Denmark, meanwhile, has an increasingly very right wing electorate which votes for the lovable People's Party, and has possibly the strictest immigration controls in Europe.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 2:40pm Grafter wrote:
The scandinavian countries have been moving to the right for some time. Although high tax and high on benefit entitlement they are very pro private property rights and economic and business freedom. Norway in particular is in many ways more materialistic than the UK as its culture is so influenced by the US now. Also they are small and until very recently extremely mono cultural.
If you have spent time in Malmo you would know integration isn't going that well.
Oh and they are massive exporters of highly sought after weoponry which some leftists seem to forget.
And monarchist.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 3:17pm Old Bloke wrote:
I wonder when Lewes last elected a Labour MP
On 1 Sep 2015 at 3:42pm Paul Newman wrote:
Yes well its the old game isn't it. Here is a successful country and it is, in some senses left wing, therefore we would be more successful if we were more left wing.
One might equally say that the USA is on average more productive than Europe and more prosperous or that Scandinavian taxes are less progressive and they benefit from ethnically homogeneous populations or having more competition in the provision of services ( such as Swedish education)
In the UK we have tried having powerful unions high top rate taxes and Nationalized Rail ( not to say steel and coal )- it did not go well.
I`m sure there are many people especially in the public sector , who think the vast increases in public spending under Blair was a good thing fair enough .Certainly some good things were done but this moved the UK form a model a bit like a high spending US at 37% to a Scandinavian 50% plus.
If this is now "right wing " then god knows what Corbyn has in mind.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 5:04pm Lest we forget wrote:
A little reminder of Newman`s political past.Even his own party dumped as an electoral liability.What a prat!
“Almost bestially stupid”: top Tory’s verdict on Islington residents
By Mark Pack | Mon 16th April 2007 - 12:12 pm

Paul Newman is Vice-Chair (North) of Islington Conservatives and had this to say recently on Iain Dale‘s blog:
“I have to confess that the denizens of Mildmay [a ward in Islington] are almost bestially stupid . There is not a lot you can do with them…they live from road kill and sleep under Newspaper"
On 1 Sep 2015 at 5:07pm Tango Alpha wrote:
Newman sounds like a Nazi.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 5:22pm Old Bloke wrote:
A Nazi reference
How original
Can anyone tell me the last time Lewes elected a Labour MP?
On 1 Sep 2015 at 5:31pm Old Tw@t wrote:
The Nazis were n`t so bad!They had lovely uniforms or was that the Girl Guides.My memory is not what it was.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 6:13pm Paul Newman wrote:
Sadly I was not as important as my little stalker implies, there was one man his dog and me in the North Islington Conservative Party and the dog outranked me .(Oh the quote was about my own friends not people in general, it was a joke and therefore inexplicable to the spotty class warrior )

On 1 Sep 2015 at 6:37pm Paul Neumann SS wrote:
I have to confess that the Untermensch of Mildmay [a ward in Islington] are almost bestially stupid . There is not a lot you can do with them… except boil them up for soap and candles they live from road kill and sleep under Newspaper"
On 1 Sep 2015 at 6:51pm Auntie Aviator wrote:
"Can anyone tell me the last time Lewes elected a Labour MP?"
Well obviously never for Lewes Constituency, of which Lewes town is a small part.
But Lewes Town had Labour councillors from the 1930s to the 1970s.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 7:26pm Old Bloke wrote:
Labour councillors as recently as 40 or so years ago?
A party of lasting local impact
Like Corbyn will turn out to be - never at the races
On 1 Sep 2015 at 7:52pm Sussex Jim wrote:
If anyone is guilty of stripping the world of its natural resources, it must be the Chinese: enjoying the Indian summer of Communism whilst building up their economic empire by flooding the world with all sorts of cheap but shoddy goods.
They export all over the world by ever larger fossil-fuel burning container ships; then we use the stuff until it packs up soon after, and have to recycle it- only to replace it with more of the same!
Thank goodness I am still using the 1938 British made drill I inherited from my father- and my 1969 German car.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 8:10pm Clifford wrote:
Paul Newman wrote: 'The forces unleashed by capitalism have provided reduced global poverty...'

What a terrible old Marxist Paul shows himself to be.

'The bourgeoisie, during its rule of scarce one hundred years, has created more massive and more colossal productive forces than have all preceding generations together. Subjection of Nature’s forces to man, machinery, application of chemistry to industry and agriculture, steam-navigation, railways, electric telegraphs, clearing of whole continents for cultivation, canalisation of rivers, whole populations conjured out of the ground — what earlier century had even a presentiment that such productive forces slumbered in the lap of social labour?' (Marx & Engels, The Communist Manifesto).

But Paul refuses to accept how the story ends.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 8:33pm Grafter wrote:
Yes, I always thought "Marxist" was a very loose label. Leninist or trotskyist seem much more specific. After all the journalists who ran "Living Marxism" turned out to be a bunch of libertarians, you can often hear them on "moral maze".
The tory party abandoned conservatism in 75 but that's another story.
On 1 Sep 2015 at 9:18pm Paul Newman wrote:
Hi Clifford
Thats exactly right I think Marx provides what in historical terms is one of those insights so astounding that you cannot imagine a world without it . That is that economic forces and the power structures they produce are essential to any understanding of history or society. We all post Marx just as we are all post Freud .
On 1 Sep 2015 at 9:56pm Paul Neumann SS wrote:
We are all post Hitler!
On 1 Sep 2015 at 10:41pm Mark wrote:
It is an astonishingly beautiful book. Whole chapters are sheer poetry. Part of its appeal, I suppose. Reading it in the school library while all the "normal" boys were chasing girls or doing sports. Happy days.
On 2 Sep 2015 at 12:32pm Auntie Aviator wrote:
Old Bloke thinks he's a conservative
If he was a proper conservative he would appreciate that for democracy and parliament to work properly then we need a credible opposition.
Even if you are a Conservative supporter, you should recognise that the end / destruction of a major political party is not a good thing for the country.
On 2 Sep 2015 at 12:47pm Old Bloke wrote:
You do love to pin a label Auntie A as you preach
Just to enlighten you I have never voted Conservative in my entire life (aged 70 now)
I wouldn't condemn anyone who does - that in itself makes me a bigger supporter of democracy that many on here
Neither does not voting Conservative give me any moral or intellectual high ground and thankfully not the superior attitude
of the various snobby and sneering lefties that frequent this board
You included
On 2 Sep 2015 at 1:28pm Old Soak wrote:
I`ve been voting for Queen Victoria for over 50 years now.God bless you your Majesty! .Ooops! I`ve wet myself again!
On 2 Sep 2015 at 1:40pm Paul Newman wrote:
I agree with AA and if you look at the surveyed evidence on Con Home as the 4th choice left wing candidate closes in on victory the initial hilarity has given way to great unease. This is not a good thing although at this stage we might as well have Corbyn as Northern Corbyn
On 3 Sep 2015 at 9:35am Auntie Aviator wrote:
You're the biggest snob on here Old Bloke, albeit of the inverted variety.
On 4 Sep 2015 at 9:01am Belladonna wrote:
Meet in the Lewes Arms, Saturday night for a political debate with total strangers. I'm sure everyone will get on brilliantly

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