On 10 Nov 2010 at 1:23pm Sybil wrote:
There cannot be many BBC Radio Sussex listeners on here, otherwise they would be unloading their wrath on friend Smith. He was being interviewed regarding his complaint about appearing to have his effigy paraded in the streets and ignited on the Southover fire. He was saying that the burning of effigies of living people should be banned and cited Firles burning of a caravan with "pikey" written on it as an example of stirring up communial hatred. Storming Norman came on and defended the burning of effigies and pointed out that he had been the target before. He also mentioned that Smith was writing a book. Presumably Smith wants to keep his spark alive in true Murdoch fashion. At this rate I can see an unmarked, unidentified effigy appearing on all six societies fires next year.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 2:36pm Independent thinker wrote:
It seems odd to me that new people keep turning up on here to post about DJS, presumably hoping to spark a reaction. And it's funny how DJS regularly quotes this forum in his articles and tweets. Almost as if the two are connected.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 3:38pm 'ere be monsters wrote:
It's far beyond my imagination but, it's surprising that no-one has suggested that a DFL member of Southover and DJS had conspired together to get an effigy of him made and blown up, as there really is no want from any other society to promote his book. The Times claimed to have known that there was an effigy of him before the 5th. In all fairness to Southover, if it was an effigy of him it was a pretty poor likeness, looks more like Twizzle with glasses.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 4:01pm rocky wrote:
Your right there Sibil, there aren't many listeners, probably because the radio station sucks large ammounts of donkey d*ck!!
On 10 Nov 2010 at 4:05pm Southover Man wrote:
@'ere be monsters. You just did suggest there's a conspiracy! Very funny. He was probably expecting one because of all the people who wrote as much on this forum back in the summer. With hindsight I suspect a lot of people in Southover possibly regret adding such great publicity as he's in the middle of his book tour; even though his article made clear that Bonfire was an example of intolerance and racism in Lewes. I don't see that making him an 'enemy of bonfire' was that controversial. Sadly he does have great opportunities to voice his own intolerant views (by which I mean condemning others from a position of ignorance and prejudice).
On a lighter note, if the effigy was a poor likeness, it's probably because a) it's meant to be a characterture and b) is it worth the time and effort?
On 10 Nov 2010 at 7:31pm Deelite wrote:
It is certain that he is trying to generate publicity to sell more copies of his book.... and is using the original Sunday Times racist Lewes article, the forum, bonfire and everything else he can to improve sales. He is a cynical (to the point of willingly damaging his family to achieve his aims) and you are being manipulated. Now can we just move on.... (and don't forget to spit when you see him in Lewes)?
Any publicity is good publicity if your aim is solely increased sales.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 7:54pm Pedant wrote:
Did I see an effigy of Obama somewhere?
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:02pm MC wrote:
Yup, Commercial Square:
Commercial Square - Obama and BP
Waterloo - the Victoria Hospital
South Street - Donald Duck and BP
Nevil - Basil Brush with Cameron and Clegg
Firle - Cameron and Clegg in bed
Southover - Clegg in a cannon
Borough - Judge'll Fix It with Scapegoats
So far I've only seen photos of the Cliffe offering. I'd like to see a set of photos showing each one.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:09pm Chuck wrote:
I asked Sussex Stationers to remove his book today. I hope they do, although people weren't queuing up to buy it. Jordan's book is quite popular though. Ha ha, one shows her tits, the other is a tit!!!!
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:24pm badger wrote:
sorry can I just ask why waterloo had had the vic? I really dont know Im not being pedantic. Thanks
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:28pm MC wrote:
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:30pm wallander wrote:
We are all mugs for responding to this.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 8:38pm Cliffebimbo wrote:
Waterloo probably had the Vic because of the Centenary.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 9:48pm Leaf wrote:
The apprentice is a boring tonight.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 9:55pm TPL tel wrote:
Shut up t1t.
Yes, a great shame that IBS fell for tw@t smiths three card trick while all the rest simply ignored it. Dfls lampooning a dfl, you couldn't make it up.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 9:59pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
You'll find racists anywhere James, sadly. I certainly don't think Lewes is any more racist than anywhere else, and a good deal less racist than many places. I come from an area where there were racist murders in the early 80s and the National Front had their own bookshop.
One friend who comes from an ethnic minority who lived here for a few years was once racially abused in Lewes. If he had lived practically anywhere in south London it would have been a much more frequent occurrence.
I'm an outsider but I have always felt very welcome here. Bonfire may seem insular, but there is nothing to stop anyone getting involved and being part of it.
On 10 Nov 2010 at 10:47pm wallander wrote:
"the national front had a bookshop". You mean they can read? I'm shocked!
On 10 Nov 2010 at 11:06pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
The hospital effigy was about impending budget cuts - there was also a spectre/ death hanging over it with a scythe.
I think DJS has got exactly what he wants. More publicity. The ego of the man is monstrous. Every town, city, village has its racists, but the problem with DJS is he has smeared the whole town with the racist tag,and the further it gets disseminated, the more people will think it's true. He's created far more ill feeling with that article. Who would have thought to make him an effigy had he not written it ?
On 11 Nov 2010 at 2:41am Bob wrote:
He Tweeted on 1st Nov: *Burning question for me this week is will I be dragged through the streets and torched as an effigy on bonfire night in lewes. its a secret*
All part of his plan, as was his article in the ST on Sunday which I'm sure would have been pre-written and ready to go. Bonfire was an easy target in his first article in August and the timing of the follow-up on Nov 7th was in no way a mere coincidence.
It also gave him the chance to stir the pot again, make more uneducated references about bonfire (similarities to the KKK anyone?) and generally keep the story (and his profile) ticking over.
What gets me is that he's quite happy to criticise the people of Lewes who in his mind don't 'understand' the wider aspects of race in society but *he* doesn't seem to have made any effort to understand the history, tradition and culture of the town he loves to now call home.
On the 5th, some societies were told that there were members of the English Defence League causing a few issues by trying to grab torches. Not sure if that's true but if so, I wonder why they were here? Would they have even heard of Lewes if it wasn't for a certain someone abusing his privileged position as a writer in a national newspaper at the expense of thousands of people in the town he lives? I wonder...
On 11 Nov 2010 at 7:06am One who has wrote:
@Southover man. The reason it was a poor likeness was nothing to do with it being a characterture, more to do with it being really badly made. As for 'is it worth the time and effort', well, if you're going to do it at least have some pride in what you put out on the street.
SBS fell into the trap and were used. They'll learn, hopefully quickly, but hopefully they'll learn to follow a map first. Some people just want to be made into an enemy of bonfire, or a Tab. Those are the people you never do.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 7:33am Me wrote:
IBS certainly don't need a map of winterbourne hollow as first they were up, they were up and then they were down they were down, and then they were only half way up and were niether up nor down
On 11 Nov 2010 at 8:49am 'ere be monsters wrote:
@Southover Man. I didn't suggest anything I only wondered why nobody had!!
On 11 Nov 2010 at 8:59am mr happy wrote:
It would be stupid to think that a town or village was only made up of born and breds and that they didnt like outsiders. Lewes has very few born and bred people in it. I was born in bred in Lewes as was my mother but none of my friends were! If people dont like you or dont accept you its because you are either not very nice or you have annoyed them in some way not because you come from another town or village. Maybe some people cant accept that fact and look for another reason.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 9:31am TeeHee wrote:
Did you get that James? Worth thinking about huh?
On 11 Nov 2010 at 9:52am Dalia Rich wrote:
I didn't realise that Londoners were a race.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 10:18am Smuggler wrote:
"What gets me is that he's quite happy to criticise the people of Lewes who in his mind don't 'understand' the wider aspects of race in society but *he* doesn't seem to have made any effort to understand the history, tradition and culture of the town he loves to now call home"
Indeed. When white men went to Africa and told the people that they had to change their ways to suit the incoming culture, that was racist Imperialism. Fair enough. But when a Londoner moves to a provincial town and tells them to change their ways, that's enlightenment. Truly the work of an idiot mind.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 11:37am Helenium wrote:
My favourite sketch was Fat Belly Gutbucket playing drinks darts with Even Fatter Belly Gutbucket. Superb TV....
Edwardian Farm was excellent on TV last night!
My parsnips are taking a beating in this weather
On 11 Nov 2010 at 11:40am Decent Citizen wrote:
I do hope his book is a flop! Nasty individual. Anyone who can put their greed for money before the best interests of their family are, in my opinion the lowest of the low.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 12:57pm Pedant wrote:
Smuggler wrote: 'But when a Londoner moves to a provincial town and tells them to change their ways, that's enlightenment.'
I understood Smith accused Lewes of racism. So - and let me get this straight - what you're saying is that Lewes is racist and it's none of his business to comment as an outsider? I think you may be making his point for him.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 1:20pm Smuggler wrote:
No Pedant, that's not what I was saying. Apologies if you missed the sarcasm. I'm saying that Smith's world view appears to be that he would regard it as incorrect in principle to go to another culture and tell them that they are 'wrong'. But at the same time he seems to think it's OK for him to move to another town and tell people that his position is somehow objective truth and theirs is incorrect.
Where do I mention racism? I don't think Lewes is racist (people can be racist - but a town can't be). I'm talking about his attitude to Bonfire.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 1:41pm Pedant wrote:
Is Lewes 'another culture'? I would have thought it was closely related to, for example, London culture. I don't think your lame analogy works.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 1:53pm Mr Forks wrote:
Lewes is another culture, just as London is culturally different to Lewes. Everywhere has it's own unique culture and people should be aware of it. If you don't like it, clear off or shut up!
On 11 Nov 2010 at 2:00pm Observer wrote:
I think the only thing lame here Pedant, is your display of hair splitting. My 9 year old thinks that is the way to win an argument. It's pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain cell what smuggler is trying to say.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 3:28pm Smuggler wrote:
Pedant - you can think my analogy lame or not, but it's a pretty simple point. What Smith said in his original article was that he was no longer happy to raise his kids in London so he moved to a country town, which is the classic 'grass is always greener' scenario. I get the impression he thought Lewes would offer his family some imaginary idyll. I don't have a problem with that as an aspiration, but when it appeared that he had problems with aspects of Lewes life, he chose only to consider that Lewes should change to suit him; not that he should consider whether he needed to adapt his views or look at the context.
I'll give you another lame analogy. I moved here half a dozen years ago or so. I'm not a massive fan of fox hunting, but I don't expect the Boxing Day Hunt to change just because I moved here. I just choose to avoid it.
I don't have a problem with protest - God knows I've protested about enough things myself over the years - but what I do object to is an arrogant expectation that the world should only be seen through your eyes.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 4:45pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
Much as I disliked the original article, I do think you are on tenuous ground here smuggler. It sounds like you are saying 'put up or shut up'. There's no doubt there are racists in Lewes, as in any other town, city, and there are subtle forms of racism that many of us don't understand as we haven't experienced them.
DJS has a certain arrogance though and what I don't like is the way he speaks for his wife and family - it seems patriachal and actually, I would rather hear a black/ mixed race person's experience in their own words - not his interpretation of them. He seems to have appointed himself the arbiter of BME experience in Lewes. I've been looking at his website and his blog, which you can see here, and or comment on his blog. hxxp://www.davidjamessmith.net/good-news-blog/.
Funnily enough he reprints his exchange on the whole matter with Norman Baker - and is obviously not sensitive to offending disabled people as he accuses Baker of being blind in his letter to him.
There's a discussion organised for the 23 November at the Pelham House hotel on the issue of diversity at which DJS is speaking. I think it would be worthwhile going along.
On 11 Nov 2010 at 5:40pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
What for, to burn him?
On 11 Nov 2010 at 11:09pm Patronising Pete. wrote:
Thanks for explaining where Royston Vasey is James, 'cause we 'aint got no telly down 'ere.
On 12 Nov 2010 at 8:14pm Sue Smith wrote:
So, hearsay goes that he repeated on television that people of Lewes are racist or at least that's what my partner told me. Is it actually worth looking into to get him for libel (An untruth broadcast through radio, television or film..before that whole slander/libel discussion sparks up again)? I live in Lewes, I'm not racist and I'm deeply offended.