On 28 Oct 2020 at 11:05am Nevillman wrote:
The political disease thread has come to an end but I feel bound to respond to Tom's last post on it. We all know Tom likes a good conspiracy and one in which he is the victim must be like an early Christmas for him. Sorry to disabuse you though Tom, all anyone has done is unsuccessfully ask you to clarify points you made or tried to put you right on a number of factual errors that you made. Despite what you say, the derogatory remarks made on the thread come from you about other posters. Please keep raising your points. It is important that someone does but try to keep to the facts and don't see people attacking your points as a personal attack that requires a personal attack in response. That does in itself lead to personal attacks.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 12:01pm Ferret wrote:
Well said, Nevillman. I have to admit that I have occasionally got a little personal in retaliation. Childish I know, and I have apologised previously. No-one should object to someone holding extreme views, or believing in mad theories, fake news or conspiracy theories, as long as they keep it to themselves. Once it is in the public domain, there is quite rightly a response from those who disagree. Thank heavens we live in a country where there is still the opportunity to do this. TP seems to believe that we are heading towards a very dark future, a fascist police state perhaps. I am more optimistic than that. Oh, who is that banging on my door...?
On 28 Oct 2020 at 1:25pm Hyena wrote:
Ferret, probably meals on wheels.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 1:36pm Tom Pain wrote:
What weasel words from the ferret~ "as long as they keep it to themselves" You may have different opinions but just don't express them! Sorry, mein fuhrer, it won't happen again.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 2:18pm Nevillman wrote:
I don't think ferret means it like that Tom. He is making the point that if you make points publicly you can expect a response from those who disagree.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 5:48pm Tom Pain wrote:
Nev, it's not possible to answer about twenty questions at once from people who are being insulting to boot. That's exactly what ferret means, he revealed his true nature there,he cannot tolerate a different opinions, calling them fake ,extreme,mad conspiracy theories~charming eh? Not derogatory? Have you noticed that bullies get worse if you don't fight back? It's the same with verbal bullies. I've never put up with it and never will. I only mentioned it in the last thread to see if anyone had a faculty of self examination, an awareness of their lockstep unquestioning obedience to authority. There are thousands of medical and scientific experts who disagree with the current covid orthodoxy, all I do is point out some of them. I'm not so silly as to expect you or the rest of the parrot chorus to investigate them but hope there are one or two open minded readers who will.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 6:05pm Green Sleeves wrote:
"Open minded" = overly credulous conspiracy nutjobs
On 28 Oct 2020 at 7:08pm David Stanley wrote:
Trouble is your "online demeanour" takes away from your often sound and interesting points. Try not to take criticism of your view as criticism of you personally.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 7:17pm Dreamer wrote:
Again TP: most of us reexamine our convicting on a regular basis. No natter how loud you whinge, the daft of the matter remains that you are the one person on these discussions who won't let details like evidence and data get in the way of your beliefs.
The pattern is always the same: you bake an outlandish claim (usually on something where you clearly show you don't even understand the most fundamental concepts), you are challenged on it with actual evidence (often by people who actually know what they are talking about), then you start worming around, assigning new meanings to very clearly defined words (yes, I won't let you weasel out of the reality of what "comorbidities" actually means), throw out a few references to random blogs, out of context quotes, or just plain conspiracy theories, and when asked to provide evidence, simply moan about "the parrot parade" (pot, kettle, black).
I appreciate that facts and evidence is a detail for people like you, as they are for BoJo and Trump, but for the rest of the World they matter.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 8:58pm Ferret wrote:
@TP I've never wanted to make you feel bullied. Indeed I've worried about the effect on your mental health in having your no doubt sincerely held beliefs challenged by so many of us. Not just challenged but demolished. And when you insist on promoting fake news, mad conspiracy theories and dangerous policies regarding the pandemic, which you hardly seem to think is real, you are going to be challenged. Better keep all that to yourself, and your close associates, rather than try to spread the nonsense through this forum if it upsets you personally. Your jibes at me are water off a duck's back, and a clear admission of your failure to win the argument. There's nothing personal in it as far as I'm concerned, but if you want to sound like Lewes's answer to Trump, you have been doing a very good job of it so far.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 10:36pm Tom Pain wrote:
Trump? Well I am fabulously wealthy,but much better looking. Are you suffering the Trump psychosis? Surely you don't believe all those conspiracy theories about him, all that moron fodder?
It's ok David, I'm not taking it personally. My online demeanour (I like that) is not calculated to please, it's not calculated at all. I'm very dissatisfied with it, truth to tell. When in Rome etc. but this is the Lewes snake pit after all. Present company excepted I've rarely come across such a poisonous, gelatinous crew of plastic Paines in my life and if I lived anywhere else I would avoid them like the plague. I'm sure I won't be allowed to get away with it much longer but while I can I'll say what I think about the plastic scamdemic and the quislings that facilitate it from ignorance or political malice. It's been a lark!
On 28 Oct 2020 at 10:42pm Ferret wrote:
" It's been a lark!" So that confirms it. You are just trolling us. You're doing it for the entertainment, not because you believe any of it. How clever of you.
On 28 Oct 2020 at 10:47pm Dreamer wrote:
He has of course said so in other words repeatedly. Troll is what troll does.
On 29 Oct 2020 at 9:53am Nevillman wrote:
I used to think he was a troll but it depends on your definition of troll. He is a genuine fan of Tom Paine who admires him because he wasn't afraid to speak his mind and court unpopularity. He genuinely thinks there has been an over reaction to covid and looks for evidence to support this but lacks the ability to properly assess what he reads. It is a bit of a lark to him to rile other people with his posts but he isn't very good at arguing his case so turns on the people who question or attack his stated opinion with personal attacks rather than argument. Being the persecuted, misunderstood lonely voice of reason really helps him feel like Tom Paine.
Speaking as someone who avoids all news, I welcome and enjoy his contribution and he fulfills an important need in a democratic society. It would be better if he was more able to argue his case properly but you can't have everything. I am 95% sure I know who he is and I'm sure some of you would too. An amenable and pleasant person in real life. I'm not sure Tom Paine was.
On 29 Oct 2020 at 10:33am Green Sleeves wrote:
100k per day getting covid now, with deaths already back up to 300 a day and surely only going to rise now the new infections are rising exponentially. Sadly the much maligned Whitty and Valance were right and a second wave is very much here.
But no, smug, egotistical opportunists on talkradio know best. We should be listening to serious people like Richard Madely and Julia Hartley Brewer about covid instead of virologists....
On 29 Oct 2020 at 3:42pm Tom Pain wrote:
It's ok chaps, I've had the cure, banished Captain Haddock and reformed! Allow me to quote from Bertrand Russell's 1952 book "The Impact of Science on Society"~ "Diet, injections and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible."
On 29 Oct 2020 at 7:32pm Dreamer wrote:
Nevillman: It was TP himself that said he aims "to be a pain". Which does fit the standard definition of trolling.
I don't object to his being sceptical or critical and second guessing. That is indeed laudable. My issue is solely with his apparant conviction of knowing best, even when is getting basic facts completely wrong.
The other thing that surprised me is his inability to deal with people agreeing with him. As was evident in the recent Lockdown thread.
Looking at all this, I do think it us about justifying his selfish behaviour by declaring there is no serious threat from a virus, in the face of all evidence to the contrary.
The difference between TP and Tom Paine is that the former will believe the same thing on Wednesday that he believed on Monday - no matter what happened on Tuesday.
On 29 Oct 2020 at 11:38pm IDM wrote:
To Dreamer, 27 Oct 11-37. A good list of ways to do it - but strong border controls help as well. NZ, Australia (even between states), Jersey, Guernsey, Man, Iceland. Yes, it helps that they are islands, whereas in Great Britain; er, hang on a minute ...
On 29 Oct 2020 at 11:57pm IDM wrote:
To Dreamer 27 Oct 19-52. There is also the point that a parrot copies what s/he has heard, rather than creating something incomprehensible for her/himself.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 1:12pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Whatever happened to Hamid Barr on here? He was an even bigger troll than TP. His views on masks and covid would surely be bonkers.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 4:24pm Dreamer wrote:
No doubt border controls would help. A lot. I would consider that part of tracing.
Whereas airport checks, counter to what I had expected, seem to have proven inefficient in the past. There were incidents with ebola and bubonic plague in the past 20 years where that failed miserably.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 4:36pm Hamid Barr wrote:
I glance on here from time and note the usual handful of up their own rectum gossips are still desperately trying to flaunt their self proclaimed intellect. Given the regular arrogance, snide remarks and down their nose rhetoric from most of the meagre number that inhabit this snooty forum it's no surprise that hardly anyone posts.
My nephew is an esteemed virologist Greenie so I daresay my views on China virus are far less bonkers and rather more informed than yours.
But you keep spouting to your fellow middle class liberal left sneering air heads amongst the fractional minority of Lewes people that come on here.
I'll carry on with the occasional look during the rare times I've nothing better to do - if only to see you all having your bottoms handed to you on a plate by Tom Paine.
I may pop back on in a month or two to have a smile at your fatuous reply. This thread will be easy to find ' come December it'll still be close to the top of page.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 5:16pm Tom Pain wrote:
It's refreshing to see my shining example so enthusiastically taken up, my last post, intelligently commented on and no one making ad hominem remarks.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 6:32pm Green Sleeves wrote:
LOL! "It" appears!!
Love the casual "i glance on here from time to time" - I've not heard or mentioned your name in months, and the moment I do....you appear the same afternoon!
Its nice to hear about your "virologist" nephew. You should perhaps try to actually listen to him once in a while.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 6:58pm Dreamer wrote:
You weren't kidding Green Sleeves... He is a beautiful specimen! Where did you find him?
On 30 Oct 2020 at 8:33pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Isn't he just a beaut? Hamid Barr is one of the original alt-right ghouls on this forum, who often have trouble keeping up with their numerous forum aliases.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 9:55pm Dreamer wrote:
Looks like the result is excavations on old Usenet groups.
On 30 Oct 2020 at 10:09pm Tom Pain wrote:
Thank goodness G and D are here, now I've forsworn my wicked past, they're bound to join my campaign to clear the forum of trolls and join the league of decency. I'm sure I'll be like an ex smoker and well over the top but my intentions are good. I suppose the ferret is enjoying some well earned leave, but if he's interested, the league could benefit from his example.
On 31 Oct 2020 at 11:32pm IDM wrote:
Sorry Dreamer, I misspoke. I meant absolute brickwall borders; nobody allowed in for any purpose. So here, (for a few days!) we should have borders between tiers. For the few allowed to enter Australia (mainly returning nationals), it's 14 days' strictly controlled/supervised quarantine, which is probably just as good.
On 1 Nov 2020 at 3:36pm Dreamer wrote:
While not a general fan of tight borders, I do agree.
There was no need for holiday travel abroad this summer and the results are obvious now (most infections in the UK are a virus strain imported from Spain). I can't unsersrand why there were any exceptions (let alone so many) to 14 day quarantines on entry. No mandatory testing for travelers, no checks on quarantine compliance...
Pretty much all countries that are controlling the virus well (and avoiding anything even close to a lockdown) properly controlled their borders.
On 2 Nov 2020 at 12:09pm Tom Pain wrote:
Lockdown Murder part 2, the survivors of part 1 get what's coming to them. Care homes forbid visits, Dr.Bodkin Adams rubs his hands with glee.
On 2 Nov 2020 at 3:29pm Dreamer wrote:
And we have people like you to thank for it Tom. Well done. Pat yourself on the shoulder. But hey, at least you didn't have to wear a mask.
On 2 Nov 2020 at 10:43pm Tom Pain wrote:
I think you've grasped the wrong end of the suppository inserter.
On 2 Nov 2020 at 11:20pm Dreamer wrote:
You may not like it, but your refusal to take the simplest steps (e.g. Wearing a face covering) and your continuous echoing and mindless parroting of proven misinformation are a key element in undermining an efficient and low impact response.
Not you alone of course, but enough folks of your mindset together (inside and outside the 1922 committee and "Reform Party" and whatever else they call themselves) have demonstrated how it's done: With all your howling you achieved the opposite of what you claim to want.
Just because you refuse to accept evident reality doesn't mean it goes away. And then reality happens.
On 3 Nov 2020 at 1:58pm Tom Pain wrote:
If you saw the photo of the mask packet on the forum you have seen the disclaimer that it is NOT protection against covid. FACT
If it lets the virus in it will let it out.OBVIOUS
If you have seen the video of Dr.Fauci saying masks are useless against the virus, but wear one if it makes you feel better, why are you repeating your claims and pointing the finger of blame where it is not deserved.
There are plenty of doctors and scientists pointing out the flaws in the government's policy if your political bias would let you look at them.
There's also a video of Dr. Fauci saying that the PCR test is useless beyond about 30 magnifications for finding covid.
Also there is a freedom of information document in which the health service admits there is no pure sample of covid taken from a living human, what do you make of that?
On 3 Nov 2020 at 4:55pm Dreamer wrote:
Let's be clear Tom: everyone one of your claims over the past months has been repeatedly disproven. There is a huge body of evidence (I have cited papers repeatedly and publicly available data sets repeatedly) that demonstrates that.
Every time you have been challenged and asked to provide evidence to support the theories you mindlessly parrot, you have been unable to do so. Instead you have shown repeatedly that you don't even understand the most fundamental principles (or vocabulary) of the topics you are trying to discuss.
All the whole you are arrogant enough to not let lack of knowledge and understanding prevent you from contradicting actual experts and claiming to know better than them.
That you are resorting to quoting a product safety label (of course the mask doesn't protected the wearer, it protects the others - that is why not wearing one is utterly selfish) just underlines that even more.
And yes, Fauci did indeed initially say that masks don't work. But, being a scientist, he has long changed his mind after having examined the evidence. And he has repeatedly explained that. I appreciate that you refuse to see that because he did something you appear to be unable to do: changed his mind when looking at evidence.
Tell yourself what you must, so that you can avoid reality. But don't expect others to join you in that odd world.
And now you are welcome to start whinging about how horrible I am to you.
On 3 Nov 2020 at 8:52pm Twostime wrote:
@Tom Pain @Nevillman why would a post to this thread be blocked? Are we not allowed to cite sources?