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Norman Baker Lied about "Fare Increases"

On 19 Oct 2010 at 1:41pm Newmania wrote:
I am calling "Pants on fire "on her majesties esteemed Transport minister aka 'just our Norm'.You may have noticed that we are due to get horrific train fare rises.A season London ticket from Brighton will be about £4500 by the time its over and I `d guess Lewes about the same . Probably more
This is regulated by a formula set in relation to the government`s 2 billion subsidy industry sources are saying the rises will end up at 40% by 2015
Norman Baker , whose talk on transport policy I attended , failed to mention this . In fact he campaigned on a 1% price rise in excess of inflation going on about green this and that wheil he was doing it .Thats lying aint it ?

Not that I care but this is about as un-green as it gets and in fact is yet another handy way to clobber the hard working middling so we can afford the 9 billion for Afgrica , 3000 army horses and not to upset the Public Sector Unions . As Sir Paul Judge pointed out the deficit is going to be paid for with taxes not cuts ,spending is planned to increase.

I would love to hear Norm`s explanation for this attack on commuters to go with his attack on children and volte face on tuition fees .The problem is who do we turn to in a one Party constituency . I `d be interested in any way of organising opposition to Baker. He cannot be allowed to swan about in his limo while he screws his constituents .
On 19 Oct 2010 at 1:44pm pandemonia wrote:
I'm no defender of Norman but did you not know that the railways were privatised? It's not the Government who sets the fares but the train operators.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 1:50pm Peter Byron wrote:
Oh well, not as bad as lying about WMD's and taking us to war is it? Enjoy this fine day, Best Peter
On 19 Oct 2010 at 2:20pm Newmania wrote:
Oh do read a paper or something Pandemonium fares are/were capped and governed by a government formula/subsidy.

On 19 Oct 2010 at 2:31pm pandemonia wrote:
There's a formula for peak fares (or was) but Southern Railway still set the fare levels. That's how the franchise system works. If you think this Government is going to care about fare increases, let alone be taking rail operations back into national ownership (the ultimate sanction) then I suggest YOU start "reading a paper or something" since you clearly haven't worked out what sort of regime we are now enduring under the Coalition.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 2:51pm Smug Nige wrote:
If you choose to work fifty odd miles away from where you live it's tough titty. Pay up, you've no choice. I work locally and thus couldn't give a fig.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 3:04pm pandemonia wrote:
Of course, anyone who works in London will be paid London wages. So yes. Pay up and shut up.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 3:12pm Ken Wood wrote:
The Tories needlessly privatised and sold off the railways and now they are costing the taxpayer far more than when it was British Rail. Fare rises are an obvious result of this and there is not too much poor old Norm can do about it.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 3:42pm Deelite wrote:
Beyond redemption

Time to dance on the gravestones.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 3:45pm Newmania wrote:
There's a formula for peak fares (or was) but Southern Railway still set the fare levels.

Yes and those are the ones we need to get to work .Thats why they are peak .The coalition is responsible for the increases which will reflect withdrawing of the subsidy and in effect tax commuters.This is not what was promised by the Transport Minister when he was asking the very many people who rely on the trains to vote for him.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 5:49pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
So £4,500 is the price you pay for getting a London salary and Sussex house prices. It seems like a fair deal to me.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 7:41pm Newmania wrote:
Looks to me as no-one here as either bought a house in Lewes or worked in London lately
On 19 Oct 2010 at 7:55pm jrsussex wrote:
A declared Tory, as you know but I have never agreed with the privisation of public transport. It should be paid for by the taxpayer and operated as a frequent low cost service throughout the UK, whether rail or bus. Then draconian measures could be introduced to encourage people not to use their vehicles unless really necessary (keep the greens happy).
Currently they allow the so called privatised rail service to charge fares at extortionate rates and at the same time allow the cost of vehicle fuel to also rise to ridiculous elevels.
To be perfectly honest I do not understand how a so-called privatised industry receives several billion pounds of taxpayers money each year and yet can charge their customers what they do.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 8:27pm Indecent Citizen wrote:
Knickers Knackers Knockers
On 19 Oct 2010 at 9:02pm MC wrote:
Coo. I'm with jrs, except I thought the "keep the greens happy" trite. How about introducing draconian measure to reduce pollution, resource wastage and congestion... and errr... road rage, stress and isolation.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 9:06pm Matt Kent wrote:
Norman's LibDems have had a shocking time recently. Fare increases are just the tip of the U-turn iceberg. Uni Fees, Trident, not backing amendments to the Voting and Constituencies Bill, Child Benefits, not backing the BML2 scheme, not backing to reduce the age of voting to 16. Need I go on? Can there be any more lies ahead?
Normans about as pro-public transport at Jeremy Clarkeson. Many people depend heavily on Public Transport, both in the cities and in the sticks. Not everyone has the luxury of a car, and it generally affects the poorest of communities, when prices go up beyond inflation. Lets push everyone back on to the roads and pay off the deficit with taxes from the petrol pump! Its proven than cheap and efficient public transport offers opportunity for people to work and study, vastly improves peoples environment through the reduction of pollution, and generally makes towns and cities more desirable places to live. Lets also see how green the government are tomorrow when they probably halve the scope of Crossrail in London, and slash the budgets of London Underground and Network Rail for infrastructure projects.
All those who voted LibDem to 'Keep the Tories Out' must get sicker as each day passes. Come and join the Green Party Newmania, we know you want too!
On 19 Oct 2010 at 9:36pm Clifford wrote:
Whats happened Newmania? I thought you were a Tory - so why are you complaining about the Tory/LibDem government withdrawing subsidies, which means fares have to rise. You dont want the subsidies to continue do you, you naughty little socialist.
On 19 Oct 2010 at 11:31pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
Whats all this crap about London salaries ? Lewes is more expensive to live in than London. House prices ridiculously high and comparitive goods (LIke a cup of coffee) more expensive and public transport more expensive. Lewes is a closed shop as far I can see - at least in London there's more competition and more choice to keep prices lower. Yes I earn a London slaary but it ain't what you think and it don't buy much in Lewes!
On 19 Oct 2010 at 11:57pm Ex Commuter wrote:
At least you're consistant BB. In talking out of your @rse that is. I know plenty of people that would be happy with a london salary and live in Lewes. House prices are high because of the likes of you. And as for the price of a cofee, well, how do you cope.
The sad thing is I actualy think that your post isn't ironic.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 12:45am Peter Byron wrote:
Oh Brixtonbelle, once again I find myself saying, yes yes yes, you are of course so right. Hugs, Peter x
On 20 Oct 2010 at 8:56am Brixtonbelle wrote:
"House prices are high because of the likes of you. "
Ah yes, the old 'blame londoners for high house prices' argument. I don't see anyone turning down the money though . Just FYI ex commuter, I don't own a house in Lewes and doubt I ever will when very ordinary family homes are put on the market at exhorbitant prices that no-one on an average salary can afford.
The one positive thing that might come out of this whole misery of a credit crunch is house prices may crash (I've read up to 30 pc) meaning a home could be more affordable.Which given that there won't be any public housing being built and rents are also astronomical, can only be good news.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 9:06am Peter Byron wrote:
Jolly well said BB. Have a good day. Peter xxx ps Wrap up today Brixtie, it is a chilly one. Am wearing thermals!!!!!
On 20 Oct 2010 at 9:57am Down and Out wrote:
Good old Norm. Interesting that one of the things he claimed expenses for was a bike, but I've never seen him riding it. Although, funnily enough, I have seen his new best mates Cameron and Boris riding one regularly. And in his position as transport under-secretary or whatever it is, he's just overseen the abolition of Cycling England, which oversaw cycle training for kids in schools etc (Bikeability - the current equivalent of Cycling Proficiency). You know, the sort of thing which might encourage a new generation to leave their cars at home: ease pollution; reduce congestion etc. I wonder if he knows what he's doing at all?
On 20 Oct 2010 at 10:22am Penguin wrote:
Am I missing something here? If someone on a London salary finds it too expensive to live in Lewes, then how the hell do they think all the people on 'local' salaries manage? I am not going to blame anyone for the high house prices, that's just supply and demand, but let's face it, you have exactly the same choice of where to live as the rest of us, and to suggest that a London salary doesn't give you an advantage is a bit ridiculous.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 11:01am Down and Out wrote:
Penguin - to be honest, I don't think a London salary does give you any advantage a lot of the time. Whilst it's true that there are some jobs with high salaries which you can only do if you work in London, when I stopped working in Brighton and started working in London I effectively took something like a 1.5k net loss PA. This was as a result of: commuting costs (which are after tax); extended childcare costs as I'm out of the house for longer; loss of Tax Credit (which takes no account of commuting costs). The difference in salaries just doesn't cover it. I'd like to work locally, but the opportunity ain't there. Look on the bright side, though, I'm earning money in London but spending it in Lewes, which has to be good for the local economy.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 12:21pm RDA wrote:
BB, I'm afraid that due to the removal of housing delivery targets by the ConDems none or very few new houses will get built and therefore prices will rocket across the board.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 1:23pm Commuter wrote:
I live in Lewes and commute to London every day. Why is there the opinion on here that everyone who does this comes from London?! I have never lived in London and would love a job nearer to home but there are very few jobs available, nor could I live in London due to the high cost of rent etc. (unless your happy to live in a tiny shared house set up which I am not!). If the train fares increase as much as suggested many commuters similar to myself will be struggle to pay such as ridiculous amount for the 'privilege' to board a train. I might add that 'superior' London wages are not received by all and that many of us earn the same amount as in Sussex.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 1:27pm Penguin wrote:
Yes, of course I appreciate what you are saying and I am sure it doesn't help that much in all cases. Would the job you are doing now have paid the same as the one you had in Brighton were it not in London though? As for travelling, I don't work in Lewes, and the cost of getting to work every day, whilst not as much as going to London, is still far in excess of the 1.5K you are losing each year. I don't work in London either though, so this travelling cost/time is not reflected in my salary at all. I do have my own house in Lewes, which takes up virtually all of my money, and similar issues as you with child care etc., but then I don't waste what money I do have in expensive coffee shops - a mug of SMW tea and a bacon roll on a saturday morning is good enough for me!
On 20 Oct 2010 at 2:38pm Matt Kent wrote:
Newmania's a little quiet today....
On 20 Oct 2010 at 3:09pm Clifford wrote:
Newmania has probably been up in London asking Osborne not to reduce subsidies to the private rail companies in his cuts programme. Speaking of which, Osborne said it was only fair that train users should pay for rail services and not the taxpayer. something I'm sure Newmania would agree with on reflection.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 4:09pm Independent thinker wrote:
Newmania, I'm not defending rail fare rises, as I believe people should be given incentives to take public transport and abandon their cars, not the other way around, but where did your figures come from? Osborne just announced that train fares will rise at 3% above inflation for 3 years from 2012. Not sure how that comes to 40% by 2015 unless the Tories completely lose control of inflation. In which case, the cost of a rail trip will be the least of your worries.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 4:43pm Mystic Mog wrote:
I drive to Wembley 3 days a week and the other 2 I work from home in Lewes. I would love to go by train but £43.50 per day versus 15 means that the car wins. I cannot get a season ticket and I have to be at the factory by 0830.
Re-nationalise it and simplify the fares.
BTW Norman is actually very pro public transport Matt.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 4:52pm Down and Out wrote:
Penguin: "As for travelling, I don't work in Lewes, and the cost of getting to work every day, whilst not as much as going to London, is still far in excess of the 1.5K you are losing each year. "
That's not what I'm saying. To reiterate - the job I do in London pays me more than the very similar job I had in Brighton, but, once you take into account:
- the extra cost of commuting over and above what I paid before;
- the extra cost of childcare over and above what I paid before;
- the loss of Tax Credit as a result of a higher salary;
the net effect is that I'm poorer as a direct result of working in London. I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out that this popular idea that people who hop on a train to London are minted is often a myth.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 6:05pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I'm in a pitifully low paid job, and I would be between 6 & 8k better off in London.
I wouldn't do it though, not even for 80k.
Someone I know left a 50k pa job at the county council for a private sector 120k job in town. That covered his season ticket comfortably.
On 20 Oct 2010 at 10:31pm Local Len wrote:
Shall we all have a whip 'round for the poor hard done by commuters? (Or shall we all just go hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha)
On 21 Oct 2010 at 3:31pm Peter Byron wrote:
Has he got any to laugh off Lenn? That is the question. Best, Peter
On 21 Oct 2010 at 11:25pm Brixtonbelle wrote:
Peter - how was your lunch - Simpsons wsn;t it ?
On 22 Oct 2010 at 12:59pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Did anyone else see "Final Word" on Meridian last night? Norm was on along with the Green lady from Brighton, some random Labour type and some Tory from the treasury and they did ask him about the fare increases. He said he regretted it but rather than spend taxpayers' cash on improving the rail network on behalf of private companies he'd rather spend the subsidy money on improving bus routes as statistically it's richer people who use trains anyway and poorer people use buses. A lot of politic-speak of course but I do see his point and since I don't catch a train to work anymore it sounds good to me.

If, as Brixtonbelle suggests the house prices are cheaper in London then perhaps some of the communters who are going to be affected by this might want to think about moving up there. Lewes is a lovely place to live and as such we all have to pay a premium to live here. We accept this though and it has to be a personal decision as to whether the quality of life is worth the extra expense. Personally, I can barely afford the rent on our place but I'd rather live in Lewes and have very little disposable income than move to somewhere like Newhaven or Eastbourne and have more spare cash or a bigger home.
On 22 Oct 2010 at 2:24pm Grunge wrote:
Good comments, Ed Can Do.
On 23 Oct 2010 at 12:30pm Peter Byron wrote:
Brixtie, just spotted your post. Great lunch, had Roasted Grouse, washed down with too much good red wine as you can imagine. Would have had a much more enjoyable lunch if I had been in the company of a charming intelligent woman though, but alas I suspect you were busy!!! Have a wonderful weekend. Am on father duties this weekend, so getting into the lingo, off to chill and getta life as my son tells me often ha ha. Hugs, Peter

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