On 5 Feb 2023 at 8:17pm Tom Pain wrote:
Will my tinfoil hat protect me from this fearsome threat? I hear it's spread to bears as well. Perhaps if the polar bears get it, to escape sunburn they'll fly to the Antarctic and gobble up those nice penguins. What if they stop here for a rest...eek. If they get the vaccine at light speed or even the Speed of Science™ will it be as effective (ie- won't stop infection or transmission) and safe(ie have dangerous side effects for some unfortunates)as the covid jab? Will the Online Harmful Bill protect us from extremist Science Fiction Deniers ? Only time will tell.....
On 8 Feb 2023 at 8:45pm Tom Pain wrote:
The sinister Hashishin brotherhood have been booted off the forum and posting can continue as abnormal. They managed to gum up the works with their multiple posting, can anyone do that? Perhaps ace gumshoe, Maria had a hand in the glorious freeing of the forum, utilising the computer boffins of the secret Tuesday club of the conservative far left.
On 9 Feb 2023 at 11:51am Nevillman wrote:
Are you trying to make some point about over reaction to COVID Tom? On one level I agree with you and I found lockdown very difficult personally. We can't know how many more people would have died if no measures like lockdown and finding a vaccine had gone ahead. If asked, I would have accepted the increased chance of serious illness or dying to have avoided lockdown but it isn't that simple. Much as I dislike Johnson and all he stands for, I don't think he had any alternative but to try to do something and lockdown was all he could do, even if it could have been handled better.
What number of additional deaths would have been acceptable before he was labelled as the prime minister who's inaction caused the death of 100,000 or 1 million citizens?
On 9 Feb 2023 at 1:52pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Its remarkable that a tory government even bothered to do lockdowns at all, given their focus is primarily on serving large business interests rather than saving lives or the NHS. Lockdowns and vaccines undoubtedly saved lives, but the government were reactive (to mounting criticism) rather than proactive and that cost time and lives, and putting sick people into carehomes was arguably the main valid criticism.
The estimated deaths caused by covid globally ranges from 7m to over 20m. Excess deaths soared as a result of the pandemic, and those that wish to deny its impact will resort to blaming those excess deaths on people being at home on the sofa watching Chris Whitty and BoJo telling them to wash their hands more etc. Its a global conspiracy that Russia, China, North Korea, the EU and practically every single other nation on the planet were "in on" to various degrees....if you think like people like Russell Brand and Tom Pain. It was all about CONTROL and other buzz words from George Orwell books that the alt right tend to overstate in an attempt to be "woke" of these dark, sinister global entities.
You cant change these simpletons minds, they just double down on it, so best to just move on or occasionally clown on them for being morons. They cant be helped, so best just to mock them.
On 9 Feb 2023 at 9:04pm Tom Pain wrote:
No, I'm not nev. I was thinking of the bizarre things I've seen about bird flu. Also, we can't tell how many LESS casualties there would have been without lockdown. There was a medical reason for not so doing before corona 19 ie- it doesn't work. Even the WHO said that lockdown would eventually cause more deaths than the disease, though I think they were referring to starvation and other diseases in the third world caused by the supply chain chaos. As for sleevie bureaucrat russell brand simpleton moron woke conspiracy altright ad-hominem monger - estimated deaths? estimated by? Excess deaths are running at pantodemic levels or more now, how come?
On 12 Feb 2023 at 12:05pm Nevillman wrote:
I think it is hard to argue that without lockdown in the UK there would not have been more deaths. Many more people would have caught COVID at a time when it appears to have been much more dangerous. The NHS would not have been able to cope either so fewer would have been treated.
On 12 Feb 2023 at 12:20pm Green Sleeves wrote:
The dude just doesn't see those excess deaths and obvious peaks in 2020, and 2021 as anything other than "seasonal flu" - waste of time even bothering to argue with it. Its all some global cover-up between Trump, Biden, Johnson, Putin, the EU, Xi and Kim Jong Un....as well as King Charles and the Davos crew. The NHS would have been perfectly fine without any intervention. Masks were used merely as a tool to control the population, and the killer vaccines have now allowed governments to track their citizens every step. I want to hear some more "1984" references.
How longs that white van been parked outside?
On 12 Feb 2023 at 8:21pm Tom Pain wrote:
Its just as hard to argue that lockdowns helped. Without a control group it's all speculation whatever you think. If you'd have asked a medical practitioner five years ago they'd have said isolating the patient did nothing to stop the spread, let alone the entire population. Try getting hold a doctor now to even ask, they seem to have locked themselves down permanently.
It was good of you to reprise your last post sleevie, why not play it again, this time with feeling.
On 13 Feb 2023 at 8:38am Nevillman wrote:
I don't think it is hard to argue that lockdown helped. If there had not been lockdown, more people would have come into contact with people who had it and would have caught it and passed it on to other people. A certain proportion of those people would have got badly ill and a certain proportion of them would die. The NHS would have been unable to help them as the numbers were too high. You are right Tom that we don't know how many more would have died but there would have been more.
On 13 Feb 2023 at 9:16pm Tom Pain wrote:
Mere speculation, completely unscientific and impossible to prove. The reason isolation was never used before, I repeat, is that it doesn't work for so called corona viruses. So guessing how many lives were saved is circular reasoning. As the WHO, I repeat, said at the time: lockdowns would cause more deaths than the disease. Another totally unprovable myth is that the mRNA vax lessened the severity of the disease. How on earth can that be scientifically verified? It's completely subjective.
On 14 Feb 2023 at 8:30am Nevillman wrote:
Are you seriously saying that if everyone in Lewes had been socially mixing then it would not have lead to more of them getting COVID? Utter nonsense Tom. As for your second point, I'm afraid there are statistics showing a significantly higher proportion of those getting seriously ill and dying had not had the vaccine. This is not subjective.
On 14 Feb 2023 at 8:20pm Tom Pain wrote:
I'm seriously saying that there is no scientific proof that lockdown stopped more people catching the corona virus. Show me proof to the contrary and I mean peer reviewed scientific proof with control groups, not the scientism coming from the government subsidised media. As for the last point. It can not be known how many unreported unvaxed people had the disease and recovered. Are you seriously saying that you know? If so tell me how, avoiding any unprovable utter nonsense.
On 14 Feb 2023 at 8:46pm Green Sleeves wrote:
How could suppressing a virus' ability to transfer from human to human possibly have led to fewer people catching it. It just makes no sense, that preventing people from mixing would also prevent virus from spreading....oh wait, it kinda does.
The NHS was already overwhelmed to the point where they used carehomes for extra beds. Perhaps they thought that social distancing and lockdowns might just slow down the population all contracting it simultaneously....if you think there is no logic to at least that, then we're at an impasse.
On 15 Feb 2023 at 6:15pm Nevillman wrote:
I can't find any peer reviewed scientific proof with control groups showing that when people are able to mix freely with other people who have a highly infectious disease that is transmitted through their breath, they are more likely to contract the disease Tom.
This could be because it would be impossible and probably unethical to do such an experiment or because it is so obviously true that it is unnecessary or because THEY don't want us to know the truth about COVID being used as a form of social control to benefit THEM. Which do you think Tom?
I look forward to you applying the same rigorous test of proof to some of your pet theories.
On 15 Feb 2023 at 10:34pm Tom Pain wrote:
I wonder where I can find proof of governments seeking to control their people? That's a tricky one, apart from the whole of recorded history, that is.
So, a lot of nice theories lads, but a bit short of the SCIENCE you claim to follow. 0%, nada, zilch, sweet f.a. it won't make any difference though will it?
On 16 Feb 2023 at 11:35am bananus hippledick wrote:
Control groups being those Care Homes that shut their doors to visitors and had live in staff that didn't see any outbreaks of Corona virus during the peak of the pandemic.
On 16 Feb 2023 at 3:42pm Nevillman wrote:
I think you'll find that there is quite a lot of science to support the view that an infectious illness will infect more people if they are mixing freely Tom.
Are you saying that COVID restrictions were introduced only to control people rather than to reduce infection? Why? Or are you saying that COVID was actually developed to allow them to control people?
I'm not after proof of your theory at this stage Tom. I'd only like to know what you think about COVID restrictions.
On 16 Feb 2023 at 8:06pm Tom Pain wrote:
No nev, you're saying that and if I wanted to I would have, but do please tell us what you think.Are you saying that before corona 19, every one caught the flu because they weren't locked down? People used to mix freely without huge death tolls. There's no cast iron proof on anything as far as respiratory diseases are concerned, it's all educated guesswork. Dr Fauchi did a study on the Spanish Flu years ago with the conclusion that the deaths were due to bacterial pneumonia. Other studies were carried out at the time putting infected people with uninfected in close confinement and only some got it.
I've not heard of them bananus are you suggesting that a complete permanent lockdown of humanity is the way forward?
On 17 Feb 2023 at 8:30am bananus hippledick wrote:
I'm not suggesting a permanent lockdown but the results in these homes is evidence that a lockdown can curtail the spread of a corona virus. This is an important consideration when you have a new virus that you don't understand or have treatment for. For Flu we have a vaccine and treatments available as we now have for Covid. Theories that lockdown was an attempt to control the population, rather than the spread of the virus, are weak at best. No one was prevented from leaving their house so what was the government trying to achieve using this so called 'control'?
On 18 Feb 2023 at 9:45am Nevillman wrote:
I've said exactly what I think about COVID and lockdowns in this thread already Tom. Please read them and come back with any comments or questions if you wish. I would like to know what you think about COVID restrictions. All the evidence says that COVID was considerably more contagious than flu.
On 18 Feb 2023 at 11:18pm Tom Pain wrote:
It's totally impractical banana, mentally, physically and economically as well as being repugnantly totalitarian. An awful lot of people hardly dared go out and when they did they were terrified of other people, did you see them scuttling off at your approach? It was very successful at producing COMPLIANCE, which is every control freak's dream. In England we have a constitution to protect us from people like that which has been overshadowed and obfuscated by statutory laws enacted by parliament which are ok if they don't infringe our rights and liberties. This present tory government is getting a bit close to the borderline for my liking but if you're happy with that, it's your affair.
On 19 Feb 2023 at 11:50am Green Sleeves wrote:
There are probably far cheaper ways of making the population compliant than tanking its own economy via lockdown. I'd suggest it was more of a necessity than any form of being a control-freak government, and I say that as a huge opponent of the Conservative Party, particularly under Boris Johnson. He wasn't exactly in favour of lockdowns and resisted them to the point of it undoubtedly leading to further unnecessary deaths.
Besides, society needs levels of "compliance" to function optimally. I know that is not something you wish to hear as a neo libertarian. We've seen what its like to have little laws, regulations/controls on things like guns in America, the land of the FREE. Sure, i guess having a gun would be kind of cool and empowering, but after seeing the enormous suicide rates, accidents and murders caused by guns in America, I'm relieved we have some sensible controls and an interfering government saying "guns are bad mmmkay". Liberty and death isn't as appealing as it may first sound!
On 19 Feb 2023 at 9:00pm Tom Pain wrote:
Refreshing to see no references to white vans,simpletons and the rest of your usual pleasantries but- please note that I'm not a neo librarian or even a paleo. Your courageous and worthy stand against gun crime in America is exemplary, again but, what has it got to do with this thread? Was it the mention of that word constitution? It's certainly an anathema to all dictatorial types of the left and right and their hangers-on. It comes as a surprise in your case- as a supporter of the armed thugs in the Ukraine whose egregious depredations, ably supported by the US, caused the contretemps there. Chacun a son gout, I suppose.
On 20 Feb 2023 at 9:57am Green Sleeves wrote:
Still towing the Putin line about the war (sorry, special operation) in Ukraine being caused by mischievous Nazi's who want the 4th Reich? Russia, keep all that land you just invaded and currently occupy in Ukraine, Tom Pain has declared it as totally legit! Plutocrat Putin is the good guy in all of this. That evil comic actor Zelenskyyyyyy is a jewish nazi!
On 20 Feb 2023 at 10:13am Nevillman wrote:
I agree with you green. The government really did have no option but to lockdown as distasteful as it was to the government and me. Whether they did it properly and in time is another matter. We also mustn't forget their appalling cynical hypocrisy over the whole thing. Liberty is nothing like as straightforward as many people seem to think.
So what is your view on COVID and lockdowns Tom?
On 20 Feb 2023 at 6:49pm Green Sleeves wrote:
I'm wondering when TP will start bleating on about "15 minute cities" as the next conspiracy theory that is playing on his mind, along with all the other usual secret societies and overlords that control the world. I'm probably making a mistake by even bother engaging with him at all, but he wants the attention, so I will indulge him.
On 20 Feb 2023 at 10:36pm Tom Pain wrote:
I've already bleated my displeasure at the 15 min. farrago and the pantodemic. If you can't remember the trolling exploits of the tweedle brothers I can't help you. If you've forgotten about the Ukrainian democide in the Donbas region you can blame it on your Putin derangement syndrome or the skunk mind rot, but don't blame propaganda.
On 20 Feb 2023 at 11:16pm Green Sleeves wrote:
You can blame whatever you like, but i find that hilarious that you lap up alt-right conspiracy theories. I can pretty much guess your $hit take on everything you are that predictable. Peace out, till tomorrow 
On 21 Feb 2023 at 2:46pm Nevillman wrote:
It is interesting how conspiracy theorists (sorry Tom but you are one) tend to go for the whole lot. You don't find many who just believe in one of them but accept the official version of the others. I'm afraid it says more about them as a group than about reality.
Why do you think that COVID restrictions were put in place Tom?
On 21 Feb 2023 at 7:05pm Tom Pain wrote:
Just when I thought we'd got rid of the white van trash, Pancetta zooms up, snorting his best cliches, tailgating so close it's indecent. What is it that drives him to such simmering incoherent hostility to anything I say that has him glued to my every word? I don't even know what the alt right is any more than the alt left, so someone please tell him, I just don't go in for the fake binary routine. Its totally uninteresting how coincidence theorists can live in denial nev, so we'll pass that over and I repeat that my opinion on your endlessly repeated question has been uttered endlessly over the past 3 years.
On 22 Feb 2023 at 8:34am Nevillman wrote:
You have tried to explain why you think the lockdown was unnecessary Tom but you have not explained why you think the government introduced them. Were they mislead by the scientists in which case why did the scientists mislead them or did the government introduce them for their own nefarious reasons?
If you have already answered this question I can only apologise for having missed it but please can you repeat why you think the government introduced lockdowns now.
On 22 Feb 2023 at 11:18am Tom Pain wrote:
I put it all down to the epidemic of utter stupidity which I believe to be more catching than anything else. An epidemic that causes people to believe that evading answering questions with trite comments like conspiracy theory is somehow meaningful.
On 22 Feb 2023 at 1:42pm Nevillman wrote:
So your explanation for why you think the government introduced lockdowns is that they were just stupid. Can't say I agree with you but thank you for attempting an answer.
Are you implying that I have evaded an answer by accusing you of being a conspiracy theorist? I'm happy to have a go at answering any questions you have if it is not something I feel that I have already explained sufficiently for anyone to understand if they read it.
On 23 Feb 2023 at 9:02am Green Sleeves wrote:
Its a bit rich of a conspiracy theorist to call others "stupid" when you spend your days fretting over secret overlords in a swiss alps village planning evil "15 minute cities", and consider any criticism of Vladimir Putin for invading and occupying huge chunks of Ukraine as "Putin derangement syndrome". Yes Tom....you are in fact the smart one, you are definitely not stupid at all. Your sources are all real, and definitely NOT grifters....
On 23 Feb 2023 at 4:34pm Tom Pain wrote:
Talk about a tailgater, I can feel your fetid breath on my neck, hot with the effort of your twisted mind to make a strawman frail enough for even you to savage.
On 24 Feb 2023 at 12:35pm Nevillman wrote:
Going back to the point, your explanation of the government introducing COVID restrictions makes less sense the more I think about it Tom. I think you are saying they were stupid enough to listen to scientists who said that without lockdown there would be many more deaths that would be blamed on the government. Is that correct? If not, please can you explain specifically how they were stupid.
On 24 Feb 2023 at 11:01pm Tom Pain wrote:
The computer predictions of that charlatan from Imperial College prompted the lockdown idea to the WHO. I don't know if you have seen a list of his stupid predictions but I have and they are utterly overestimated in every case. The government must have known. Why take the evidence of someone who has been consistently wrong every time? You must be stupid or someone has made it worth your while, know what I mean guv? I know we're familiarised with venial politicians but it's morally stupid of them, and us for accepting it. Look how the computer man got caught out for breaking lockdown ,was that not stupid? It didn't affect him materially because we live in a corrupt system but it did show him up to be utterly without a shred of honesty. Stupid.