On 2 Sep 2011 at 4:13pm Oooh I say ... wrote:
Apparently this story was on BBC South East Today today this lunchtime, did anyone see it?
On 2 Sep 2011 at 4:38pm LTR wrote:
re part 1
Hi Southover Girl. I don't think anyone spun or even needed to spin the completely inapproprate post about inbred families in Newhaven I referred to earlier, pressumably because that they were not aware that the person posting it was apparently a local rather high profile Lib Dem using a pseudonym. Some of us knew who it apparently was , and some didn't Hardly very democratic, rather elitist and a sad example of the calibre of the Councillors we elect and pay for. Perhaps someone from the District Council could advise about the legitimacy of Councillors disguising comments made in public using pseudonyms, after all, a Councillor could pressumably be trying to cover up a breach of their Code of Conduct making comments like this, even if they use a pseudonym.?
At least the idiotic, and unpleasant Tory Councillor managed to attribute her ignorant, vile, and malicious comments to her own name.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 5:04pm plumpton girl wrote:
I see Donna's tweets can now no longer be viewed. Only confirmed followers have access to @DonnaInSussex's Tweets and complete profile and you need to send a request before you can start following her account.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 6:41pm Nick luthi wrote:
Oh zeberdee. You're far too well informed. I smell a stitch up. Welldone son.....
On 2 Sep 2011 at 6:53pm Nick wrote:
She's a bit of "Nun on a Unicycle". We need more like her.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 7:03pm Jonathan Freeman wrote:
Since she has deleted it and blocked her tweets, here is a link to that conversation in full.
This shows that her claim in the argus is untrue. She called him an idiot the day before she said she no longer wished to take part in the argument in which she had repeatedly engaged.
Check it out here »
On 2 Sep 2011 at 8:25pm Zebedee wrote:
@Nick Luthi.
I get alerts from the Argus. That's how I knew about Donna Edmunds' hapless communications. . I took the opportunity to post the info here as I live in Barcombe and she does nothing to represnt us... and she's a self-serving Tory, and I want shot of her.
No stitch up there. Just good honest opportunism.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 8:41pm Jim Cornelius wrote:
The BBC wanted to interview me on camera but I declined. I asked to issue a statement instead and they gave me a email address to send it to, but they chose not to use it on BBC South Today.
Here is the statement:
'I have no interest in pursuing this matter beyond setting the record straight. Miss Edmunds is reported in The Argus as saying "I don't regret calling him an idiot. It has to be seen in the context of a conversation that was going on for three or four hours and I had persistently told him I didn't want to talk anymore.". This description of the context is demonstrably untrue as anyone who looks at the exchange of tweets and the times-stamps can discoverer. She only told me not to continue conversing with her once on Aug 19:
(h**p://twitter.com/#!/DonnaInSussex/status/104469989112807424)
the day after she made the idiot/cancer comment.
(h**p://twitter.com/#!/DonnaInSussex/status/104166634020806656)
on Aug 18.
The exchange came about after Miss Edmunds tweeted that she thought that the NHS should be privatised and I responded with evidence from the BMJ via The Guardian
(h**p://twitter.com/#!/Jim_Cornelius/status/103742936252022784)
that indicated that the NHS was more cost-effective than many privatised systems. Ms Edmunds disputed this evidence and then made the idiot/cancer comment after she linked to an article in the Telegraph reporting high-levels of Cancer mortality within the NHS.'
End of statement.
It's up for debate whether I am an idiot or not but Miss Edmunds is demonstrably a liar.
I have just watched the piece on the BBC in which she "apologises [to the camera] to anyone offended by her comments [about cancer] ", but she has not apologised to me and indeed she is quoted in The Argus as saying "I don't regret calling him an idiot.".
According to the BBC Tony Nicholson, Conservative leader of LDC, is happy that she has apologised and will be taking no action. Well I think Mr Nicholson should reserve his joy until such time as she directs her apology towards me and also apologises to the editorial staff and readers of the Argus for making false statements regarding the context of her original idiot/cancer tweet.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 8:46pm Jim Cornelius wrote:
Last post was done from my phone, sorry for formatting/typos.
[Ed: Now corrected]
On 2 Sep 2011 at 9:18pm Taramasalata wrote:
Sounds like Tony Nicholson, Conservative Leader of Lewes District Council has made an error of judgement concerning the proven liar Barcombe Councillor Donna Edmunds. Either that or he's nakedly looking after his own. Seems like he too should be considering his position.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 9:31pm Nick Luthi wrote:
GOSH! Do you ever look in the mirror and recognise the self-important Twat that you have become? xx
On 2 Sep 2011 at 9:37pm Jonathan Freeman wrote:
Speaking from experience, Nick?
On 2 Sep 2011 at 9:39pm padster wrote:
Donna Edmunds, resign and all will be forgotten, including you.....
On 2 Sep 2011 at 10:55pm Paul Newman wrote:
No-one is suggesting that Public Health Provision be abandoned, no-one in this country or anywhere else in the developed world.
I guess that Ms. Edmonds was referring to the latest in the long line of failed attempts to undo the disastrous mistake made at its inception to make the NHS an all embracing National behemoth virtually eliminating all choice Then as now, the Doctor`s mouths are stuffed with gold to keep self seeking lobby on side ( the BMA initially opposed the NHS )
Is it really so astonishing to criticise an organisation whose productivity fell every year of the past 10. Despite all talk of cuts, in 2009 the NHS took on 12% more managers. ( Guardian , since you ask) The budget doubled in the last ten years . Remember we are a country spending c. 50% of GDP on Public goodies and collecting about 38% in taxes. Those who claim we are under borrowed need help
Even Denmark, with the best "health outcomes" in Europe, does not have our gigantic state within a state in fact we are only matched by Cuba fcs.
On Cancer outcomes a the USA survival rate for makes is 66.3%( five year survival rates 200-2002) In England it is 44.8%. Teeny problem then
My own experience has been mixed and we start form where we are. Nonetheless if the suggestion is that accountability to tax payer and patient must be improved then that has been the cry of every government for since Bevan ( with the possible exception of post Blair Labour )
On 2 Sep 2011 at 11:11pm Paul Newman wrote:
Btw those are males survival rates ..but actually forget it waste of time . Sorry
On 2 Sep 2011 at 11:16pm Jonathan Freeman wrote:
Surely a more accurate comparison for survival rates would be with another European country such as France?
Prior to the full introduction of the public option the US survival figures will presumably not include the fatalities of those who were could not afford & were denied treatment in the first place.
On 2 Sep 2011 at 11:27pm Oolon Colluphid wrote:
Mr Newman, you're not really following the plot are you. Donna Edmunds is a self-confessed Libertarian who believes that all forms of public service can be and should be provided by private enterprise where the market finds its own level. She is an avid follower of Dan Hannan who was lambasted by Cameron for going on FOX News and lying about the NHS and the climate-change denying buffoon James Delingpole.
The original tweet that sparked this whole thing off was:
"3 things: raise tax threshold, bring back grammar schools, privatise NHS."
BTW you didn't provide a single link for any of your stats. You should ALWAYS cite your sources,
Link below is Donna Edmunds blogging on her libertarian outlook citing her hero James Delingpole.
Check it out here »
On 2 Sep 2011 at 11:58pm Oolon Colluphid wrote:
This is how Donna Edmunds would like to REPLACE the NHS -
The system I would like to see replace the NHS is the system that they have in Singapore. Here, rather than paying National Insurance, citizens pay into their own healthcare pot. Some of the money goes towards insurance for catastrophic illness, the rest can be spent on low level healthcare - checkups at the doctors, or antibiotics when you need them. Because no-one wants to run out of money in their pot they shop around, driving competition up, prices down, and keeping standards high. The obvious criticism of this plan is that rich people will have more in their pot, and that is true. But again, rich people can afford to eat lobster, steak and truffles every day whilst poor people make do with beans on toast, yet no-one insists that everyone must only have access to chicken, beans, and maybe beef on Sundays. Having a roof over one's head could be considered a human right, but some people live in mansions whilst others sleep on the street. I've not yet heard of any plans to bulldoze the country's housing stock and replace it with many medium sized houses - one for each family in Britain (although I'm sure many socialists would love the chance to do so). So we already accept inconsistencies in allocation to resources that could be considered a human right in our society.
Check it out here »
On 3 Sep 2011 at 1:02am Paul Newman wrote:
I am quoting the Lancet Oncology and Simon Jenkins in the Guardian. From the same Lancet stats
Sweden 60.3% Germany 50% Iceland 57.7%
We are fifth from bottom in a league of 22 Countries lung cancer is especially poor with the rate at 8.4% (men and women) compared with 16.8%, for Iceland . We are similar to Poland (we spend three times as much on health care).
The US government actually spends more per head on health than we do despite contributing only 45% compared to our state . In total US health spending is about 2 and a half times as high per capita. Of course to the lung cancer survivor its all worth it
On 3 Sep 2011 at 1:05am Paul Newman wrote:
France is rated the best system in the world by the WHO .The % of state funding is similar to ours but there are both private and public hospitals. Social Security consists of several public organizations, distinct from the state ,with separate budgets. Supplemental coverage may be bought from private insurers.(wik) Interesting ....
The NHS is the largest Employer in Europe not everyone who defends it is financially neutral. In 2008 the Pension short fall for the FTSE 100 was £23billion the NHS were getting above £60 billion alone ( Thats just the short fall and that 3 years ago). This was due to year on year rises for both Consultants and , of course Doctors .
This debt is magically ommited from our calculations but as much of it is owed for services already rendered it is far from clear why, other than to disguise the true cost from the tax payer ( Telegraph 2008)
On 3 Sep 2011 at 4:35am Nick Luthi wrote:
Zeberdee - I'm sorry, but the "Argus alerts" story is not credible. You made the link between Cllr Edmunds and "the person responsible for rearing this muppet" Iana Jacobson at 3 in the morning.
Different surnames.
Therefore, I stand by my allegation of a "stitch- up ". You started the Lewes Forum thread.
You must follow local politics avidly or indeed be a local politician to so
easily associate mother and
daughter.
For clarity, I am Iana Jacobson's partner and do not want to see either her or her daughter covered in battery acid. Re: Argus Thursday.
Happy with your work?
Come clean
On 3 Sep 2011 at 4:48am Nick Luthi wrote:
......then perhaps we can discuss your anonymity....
On 3 Sep 2011 at 8:08am Zebedee wrote:
Both Donna and Iana have posted here previously Nick. They made the link to each other, not me. There is history here that you are obviously not aware of. There is no conspiracy or stitch up. My original pst was made at 3 in the afternoon, not the morning, in fact one hour after I received the notification of the article in the Argus. This forum does not handle 24 hour times, look at other posts for verification.
As for battery acid. Seems a tad far fetched Nick. But I'd suggest that if was patently not a concern to Donna or her mother as their blogs and facebook pages are freely available to anyone. The ties between the mother and daughter are made in their respective journals too.
We can discuss anonymity any time Nick. Start a thread about it. Maybe ebm will contribute too.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 8:24am Expat two wrote:
"I am Iana Jacobson's partner and do not want to see either her or her daughter covered in battery acid."
Then tell her to stop lying and apologise to the man. Its very simple - even a Tory should be able to follow that logic.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 8:25am Jim Cornelius wrote:
Nick, sorry to burst your conspiracy theory bubble. Timestamps on this forum are 12 hours out when displayed on the iPhone (if you say yes to the iPhone format) and I am guessing you were viewing on an your phone. I noticed this yesterday. Check the timestamps of your own posts.
I have written Tony Nicholson regarding Miss Edmunds being less than honest when interviewed by The Argus and the distinct lack of apology to me.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 9:35am Mr Forks wrote:
Aren't local tories doing well, what with insulting their own constituents, drink driving and assaulting police. Speaks of contempt for every day morality to me?!
On 3 Sep 2011 at 9:44am padster wrote:
Great stats Mr Newman, I just feel when discussing the NHS , getting stuck into the stats is a bit like how some of the managers run our NHS , in their offices looking at stats. My love for our NHS is emmotive i make no apologies for that. It is based on more than 10 years working at the sharp end and seeing how the service is delivered. It is not profitable, it does not make money it spends it. I am ok with that i want us to spend money on our health. We spend alot of money on other things that i think could be curtailed, Libya for example. I accept we must manage the NHS and try to get the best value but your debate is one for accountants and is only a small bit of the argument. Miss Edmunds appears to feel that the NHS is a big socialist elephant and wants rid of it. She looks like she can afford a private system , those who argue for it always do. Never gonna happen Miss Edmunds, now resign.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 11:27am Nick luthi wrote:
"she looks like she can afford a private health care system" !!!!!!!
Please, listen to yourselves.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 11:30am Deelite wrote:
Only one person said that. At least it was only an opinion, not an outright lie.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 11:52am Jonathan Freeman wrote:
Nick it's not hard to make the connection. Lewes is not such a large town. I know that Iana is Donna Edmunds mother and I've never met either of them. It's cleary from Donna's blog, and both their facebook's are publically visible for a start.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 12:44pm Southover Queen wrote:
The US is the only developed country which still has no statutory health insurance scheme in place. Even Singapore - which Ms Edmunds would have us treat as a model of the free market in action - actually does oblige every citizen to contribute to a basic state-run insurance scheme.
The consequences for two important groups in the US are devastating: the uninsured (which basically means the poor and/or unemployed) and those with intractable chronic health problems. Even if you have gold standard insurance, those falling into the second group are likely to be financially ruined or go untreated - half of all bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills, and of those 75% are actually insured. I know: I've seen what happens to a family caring for a child with huge health problems there, and I cannot understand how anyone who has any understanding of the US system can think that it's worth considering for a second.
Of course the NHS is messed up. I'd suggest that this is actually due to ideologues imposing badly thought "solutions" rather than attempting to reform it sympathetically. I'd still happily submit to care here for life threatening illness before anywhere else. And without resorting to the ad hominem attacks we've seen here, I'd suggest that Ms Edmunds is yet another ideologue blinkered by opinion and little actual experience.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 1:52pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
For anyone wishing to learn more about the failings of private medical insurance, I recommend Lionel Shriver's latest novel. Sadly, I can't remember the name of it, but it's alarming and funny.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 2:34pm Southover Queen wrote:
I heard it serialised on the radio a few weeks ago, ACT. Thanks for reminding me - I shall check out Amazon now (I wonder if they do it for Kindle...?)
On 3 Sep 2011 at 5:56pm Nick Luthi wrote:
Clumsily, and worse in synopsis - Donna has tried to point out that: Yes - the NHS is cost effective unless you consider "negative outcomes" as a cost. We have some of the worst cancer recovery statistics in Europe and yet the Blair / Brown governments put the improvement of Oncology at the heart of their shiny new NHS. Some of the responses ( now deleted ) to this forum, have shown far less humanity than she is accused of a lack of. How dare your correspondents presume that she or her family has not been touched by cancer, illness or needed the NHS. How dare your correspondents solicit acts of violence against them. My familly, her family, your family has been affected by cancer. We're all entitled to express whether or not we feel the status quo works.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 6:59pm Jonathan Freeman wrote:
You already made this exact post in the previous thread.
The main issue is not that she was expressing her opinion about the status quo, but the manner in which she, a councillor in a position of public responsibility conducted herself in correspondance with one of her constituents. There she is not freely entitled to express her opinions in the manner in which she did.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 7:25pm Southover Queen wrote:
Cancer survival rates have actually been improving fast in the UK, due to improved funding from the previous government as well as improving treatment regimes. Surprise surprise though: improving cancer outcomes takes time and is expensive, and they had reached a particularly poor ebb in the mid 90s. I wonder why that might have been?
As to Ms Edmunds' opinion on the NHS (and anything else for that matter) she is entirely entitled to it as a private member of society. As Jonathan Freeman says, she is not entitled to use a public position to abuse someone else, and furthermore I would have thought Conservative Central Office would be less than delighted with a councillor spouting exactly the kind of nonsense they've been at pains to deny for years. I think the best route forward for you all now is just to stop digging, given the depth of the hole you're already in.
On 3 Sep 2011 at 9:50pm old Cynic wrote:
Her facebook pages are a hoot - lots of photos of her smirking next to tory grandees (and eric pickles) has she done anything remotely useful yet or just p!ssed people off?
On 4 Sep 2011 at 1:41am Prince Africa wrote:
Did anyone watch the BBC3 series "Undercover Princes"? Donna was the girl at the end who dated me, Prince Africa. It was very funny.
On 4 Sep 2011 at 8:20am Yawn.. wrote:
Having now read a little more about Donna's libertarian politics it has struck me how naive her political beliefs are, the sort of thing that most people leave behind at the Student Union. It is open to question whether the good people of Barcombe had any idea what an inexperienced and extreme right-winger they were electing under the aegis of the comfortable country-blue Tory banner.
Has she done anything useful? Not for her constituency Barcombe as far as I can work out, and not for anyone else that can be discerned from her missives. She is Director of Research at Progressive Vision, a libertarian think-tank, which appears to be her own vehicle for airing her own views (I might be mistaken here). Adding in prolific Twitter use, Facebook pages, multiple blogs etc she looks suspiciously all mouth and no trousers (all 'communication' and no substance?). Can anyone cite anything useful or helpful she's done to serve the local community?
On 4 Sep 2011 at 9:12am demon wrote:
lewes council =freemasons
On 4 Sep 2011 at 11:08am Nick Luthi wrote:
Simple question Zeberdee - are you an elected politician?
On 4 Sep 2011 at 12:17pm Zebedee wrote:
No. Despite what you suspect I am not a politician of any sort, and I am not affiliated to any party either. I am what is termed a floating voter.
I hope this puts your suspicions to rest Nic.
On 4 Sep 2011 at 12:20pm expat two wrote:
While we're on the subject of simple questions;
What does Donna Edmunds do for the general good?
Can anyone cite anything useful or helpful she's done to serve the local community?
(Answer was there none.)