Lewes Forum thread

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phoenix rising

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On 7 Dec 2014 at 4:27pm lewes interest wrote:
Please don't forget to visit the Phoenix Rising exhibition at the Linklater Pavillion on Wednesday to see their model and drawing for the possible build on the North st site. These are reasonable plans that are in line with the National Park criteria for the future of Lewes.
If you are uncertain of what the criteria is, it contains these three main ideas:
that employment should be kept local and that industry should not suffer for building.
that the build should not be excessive and should be in keeping with the architecture and tradition of the town.
and that all measures for sustainability and enviroment should be taken into account.
They go on to prefer the builders to put something back into the community like something for bonfire to uphold its tardition or a community centre/skate park for use by the community.
Please speak to the people at the exhibition and offer your support to your town. its future and the children of this town.
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 4:41pm fed the man wrote:
I for one will be pleased when the place is pulled down . And then move on all the people living in vans buses ect. Which do not pay council tax like the rest of good lewes people
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 4:47pm fed the cat wrote:
Local employment , and industry not suffer - great ! let`s set up an iron foundry and a cement works too . LOL.
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 5:08pm bastian wrote:
can you two actually read?
are you actually interested in the future for your kids in this town?
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 5:16pm neighbour wrote:
The Phoenix Rising plan actually involves rebuilding part of the site in such a way that allows 'the people living in vans buses etc' as you put it to pay council tax (as if that was the only measure of a worthwhile citizen). I was very sceptical but the plan is well thought out and worth intelligent comment. It calls for working in a joint venture (of a kind) with Santon and LDC and may just work.
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 5:38pm fed the mam wrote:
So were does it say looking after lewes people .Ie the children
Sound to me its about looking after the people in the buses and van. Which I said put jack sh## in lewes
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 6:32pm Fast and bulbous wrote:
I too think it's a well thought out and intelligent plan that will benefit Lewes, and help retain and enhance it's character. There is no way that anyone with half a brain could not prefer this to the dull Santos plan aimed at maximising profit and providing mainly unimaginative accommodation for commuters.

I suggest the detractors above (or is it just one detractor?) has a suspicion that the people in vans have a much better time than him and so he's jealous and does not want them to benefit in any way. Has he even seen the plan?
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 7:12pm feb the man wrote:
like I said the plans are not for Lewes people . and I known that The down and out in there vans and buses moved into lewes and do not pay council tax like the rest of us
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 7:26pm lewes wrote:
It seems to me that the phoenix rising plan dosen't actually have anywhere near sufficient funding and therefore will not turn into a reality. It would be interesting to know how much funding thay actually have and what their shortfall is. I also wonder if they have sufficient expertise and experience to bring the plans to life? What is the expected timescal on this?
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 8:49pm feline wrote:
Lewes, you make my multiple posting look like a beginner's!! How about getting behind the alternative plan instead of just criticising it. The key to people changing what is being imposed from those whose only interest is making profit is by supporting those who have taken the time to work out something better for all of us without the lure of money. Look at the history of Lewes and you will find lots of examples of this. The refusal of regulars to accept the bullying of Greene King re the Lewes Arms is a recent example. Buck up and don't let these people walk all over us and our town.
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On 7 Dec 2014 at 11:59pm lewes wrote:
I cant get behind a plan the has no viable finances in place! Perhaps if you have secured funding or have some certainty than we can get behind it. Sorry for the multiple postings.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 8:27am New Bode wrote:
Phoenix Rising DO NOT own the land so all you people who give them money are being deceived .
Also where are their plans and costing for the new roads and flooding they will have to install.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 10:10am stevet wrote:
Personally I support the Santon scheme. Seems well thought out with plenty of stages of consultation, and the indicative changes to the road layout, especially at the junction of Little East St/Phoenix Causeway/Eastgate Street are particularly appealing. Lewes is far too car-centric at the moment. Above all, it is viable. The way the alternative proposal shoehorns all the housing in to a smaller space concerned me even from the artists impressions it looked rather cramped.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 12:11pm watcher wrote:
two posts from Santon employees I think!
No the Phoenix rising don't own the land, and as to finances I think they have raised a lot of money-they were told they had to raise 5 million to compete/join the debate.
The last group who were community based were out bid by Santon by 250,000, because the council didn't want responsibility for the roads and the flood defences-but it is their duty, not to be handed over to the big builders who will then demand they get their way on quoters as a result.
Good luck to the Phoenix rising-the only group who actually represent Lewes in all of this.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 12:57pm in defence of wrote:
The plans may look cramped to stevet, but the fact is that new builds are rarely cheap thanks to developers pandering to the buy to let landlords. Affordable housing is now a priority for this town, and Santon's plans do not offer this to the people of Lewes, only large properties affordable only to those who are coming in to live in the town from outside (who have already played the property game that is to be held to account for the vast rise in housing costs in the last ten years).
Where as the last local scheme fought against rabbit hutches, we have now been forced into a situation where only rabbit hutches will be affordable as the prices for land have sky rocketed in such a short space of time (between each proposed development).
I don't want to have to travel six miles to look after my grand children.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 12:58pm articulate wrote:
feb the man - on the Phoenix there are half a dozen 'vans and buses' but also hundreds of council-tax payers working hard in small light-industry businesses. You're certainly not the only one with this misapprehension; do the research before having a go
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 1:19pm New Bode wrote:
WATCH- I am not a employee of Santon only a 7o year old who has lived in Lewes all of my Lfe.
It is the responsibility of the developer to build the flood defences and the roads on their development, the local rate payer.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 1:25pm Feb the man wrote:
Articulate I can see your point . and I am on the side of the people which work hard . But I have no time for the low lifes in the vans and buses
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 1:32pm Reg Varney wrote:
Don`t let Blakey hear you say that about buses
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 1:41pm stevet wrote:
I certainly do not work for Santon! I live adjacent to the site so have taken a close interest in both proposals. We don't all have to agree.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 1:49pm Old Bloke wrote:
It's true the soap dodgers in the vans and buses have a better time than many of us.
Hardly surprising the amount of dope being grown down there
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 2:07pm feb the man wrote:
I was not going to bring that up (dope ) and that just the start
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 2:47pm david wrote:
I notice the plans for 'affordable' housing put up by Phoenix Rising and whoever or whatever they represent are for one/two bedroom
properties. Hardly family friendly - more in keeping for individual 'artisans'. their plans seem to show multi-story blocks - think we've seen this before!
I Agree with 'new bode' about flood defences and roads. I do wonder what Pells residents think about these plans.
 
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 3:09pm bastian wrote:
I dare say that the Pells residents will see an increase in water levels if the development goes ahead, as the developer only has to defend their piece of land, not the whole town.
No on esaid anything about family units, necessary as they are, Santon were not suggesting building affordable family housing either.
There is a contingent of posters on here (who many of us can see through) who allow their fear of difference to be used as a tool against common sense. It blinds them to the many ligitamate, non artistc businesses that operate on the industrial estate, many of whom have not been offered new warehouses to work from, and they are being pushed towards Newhaven and Seaford because they are too industrial for Lewes?
One and two bedroom flats are the normal build for affordable housing now-starter homes, how many of you started your families in a three bedroom house?
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 3:43pm articulate wrote:
Bastian's right about affordable housing - if we reject Phoenix Rising, we get Santon developing 100% of the site not just 70%, and their idea of affordable certainly ain't mine. And the Pells flood issue belongs to the larger Santon part of the development, as does the road one. Anyone commenting on the Phoenix Rising proposals should bear in mind what we'll get in the 30% that they're bidding for (ghetto for DFL commuters??) if they lose and Santon prevail.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 4:33pm Humbert wrote:
What local politicians are involved in Phoenix Rising? Might seem trite to some but it's a big part of considering whether the scheme has any merit or likelihood to succeed.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 4:49pm bastian wrote:
I believe John Stockdale has had some involvement, possibly Norman to.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 5:13pm Geoff Paddle wrote:
Could the money LDC make from selling the land they own go towards a reduction in our Council Tax as Special Expenses? Can't imagine Nehaven has any nice plots of land to flog off
 
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 5:16pm bastian wrote:
That is a good point, LDC do ownhalf the land, not all santon. Have the businesses on their land been offered any other alternative site within the Lewes area?
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 5:49pm Conceived in Lewes wrote:
Indeed I was - and mum + dad moved to Uckfield to a 3 bed council house ( in answer to bastian`s question ) And they didn`t buy it when they were being given away . They`d already moved out into their own little house ,with a Lewes Building Society mortgage . Those were the days - now who has got a hope ?
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 7:18pm lewes wrote:
I lived adjacent to the site and dont work for santon however we were consulted about the development and they even came round our house to discuss the plans which we like. Phoenix rising have not offered consultations or asked me what I would like to see at the site? They have their own adgenda and they dont seem to care about my thoughts on the matter. If they did they would have contacted the major stakeholders that will be affected that live next to the site.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 7:25pm gil wrote:
Why is it that phoenix rising are supporting so strongly people that arrived recently in vans and busses from brighton rather than the wider residents of lewes. Businesses can be relocated out of town where rents are cheaper they don't need to be smack in the centre of lewes town do they? Surely the priority here is for housing no 1 and art studios etc is much lower priority?
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 7:30pm david wrote:
you've nailed it 'Lewes' - they have their own agenda, titivated to sound community minded.
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 10:25pm Jane S wrote:
Hello 'lewes' - I do take your point, but just to say that Santon are a huge organisation with the money to pay consultants to visit you, and Phoenix Rising aren't. All the Phoenix Rising money is coming from local people supporting them. And 'gil', see my post above - yes, I know that the half-dozen 'vans and buses' are high-profile but the huge majority of the people working in the Phoenix now are the sort of tax-paying small businesses run by Lewes people that we (I?) want in Lewes. I agree totally with you about housing, which Phoenix Rising [BTW I have no connection with them] are offering in a manner better-related to Lewes needs than the Santon development which will otherwise take up this site. Forget the hippies - on this 30% of the Santon site there can be a less DFL/ glam-apartment zone, with cheaper housing, if that's the bottom line. Is all :-)
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On 8 Dec 2014 at 10:29pm Jane S wrote:
Ooh, 'gil', my 'post above' hadn't happened -it was just a quickie agreeing with 'articulate''s post.
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On 9 Dec 2014 at 10:02am watcher wrote:
Lewes, I don't suppose you live in the old fire station by any chance? because that was built as a co-operative housing project, which only a few years later was sold off under the tenants feet. Another example of how you get a cheap house, get the tenants to do it up, then sell it off. What santon is offering is buy to let and private only, with the Phoenix project they are trying to get security for tenants.
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On 9 Dec 2014 at 3:38pm bastian wrote:
You know people need to stop talking about the vans and buses on the estate becasue it is detracting form the serious issue of housing the young people of Lewes. This is a really hot potatoe at the moment nationally-they have been left with no where to turn and the youngsters who are living with their parents aged 30 are not on any statistics as homeless. People need a place of their own, it just infantilises young people to have them living with parents forever. This town needs to look to the future of the kids who are in our secondary schools now, not grab at short term fixes for a few rich people from outside who can afford to buy a flat to let to another at a higher cost than can be earned in Sussex.
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On 12 Dec 2014 at 8:27am Belladonna wrote:
One thing I'm not clear about - how will the affordable housing be allocated ? Is there a housing association involved here ? Are they going to be part rent/ part buy ? Will people on the council waiting lists be given priority ? Will people who have lived locally and paid rent/ council tax - for say the last 3 years - be given priority ? It's essential that the new affordable units go to people in genuine need who live locally.
I've heard that the bus people are unlikely to be eligible to apply, being 'trustafarians'.
My concern on seeing the plans was the lack of emphasis on keeping the new streets pedestrianised - given the higher density and narrowness of the proposed streets, the on-street parking and the routes will make the area very crowded and more car focused. I'd have liked to have seen more street trees included in the designs. And I was disappointed that a continuous riverside walkway, the was one of the highest priorities from previous consultations, had been discarded in favour of direct river frontage warehouse-style buildings.
I'd be interested to see the ecological credentials of the proposals as well - it's an ideal opportunity to make the new units as low cost energy wise as possible. Will all the rooflines be angled to allow solar panels ? This was one of the failings of the Santon proposals also. I really think this Phoenix proposal has to be MORE radical in that sense.


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