On 2 Apr 2015 at 1:30pm bastian wrote:
We've heard alot about politics and economics so how about some philosophy!
Human beings (that's you and me) need food, water and shelter. It's cold in the Northern areas of the world so let's add fuel to the list to.
Modern capitalism controls the flow of these things, the price and your wage for earned labour that you will need to use said non comfort items. Some people think we have no basic rights to anything (survival of the fittest)- others argue that we should all help each other if we are to survive at all. Lastly there is humanity which basically means being nice to each other to build a better world to live in.
Capitalism drives people, humanity nurtures people.
On 2 Apr 2015 at 9:54pm Celine wrote:
There ate two basic human personality types. One is motivated by power, which includes getting money and basically wanting to be more important than, and dominate others. The other is motivated by love, not the carnal version, but concern for other than oneself and an understanding that the greatest human achievement is altruism and cooperation. Guess which type tends to dominate and determine how we live ve our lives! I wasn't the biggest fan of Tony Benn but he was spot on when he said people who aren't interested in power should be the one's forced into the positions that hold it!
On 2 Apr 2015 at 9:55pm Celine wrote:
There are two basic human personality types. One is motivated by power, which includes getting money and basically wanting to be more important than, and dominate others. The other is motivated by love, not the carnal version, but concern for other than oneself and an understanding that the greatest human achievement is altruism and cooperation. Guess which type tends to dominate and determine how we live ve our lives! I wasn't the biggest fan of Tony Benn but he was spot on when he said people who aren't interested in power should be the one's forced into the positions that hold it!
On 2 Apr 2015 at 11:18pm Bongo wrote:
Excellent, I love philosophy.
Who's going to start with a premise?
On 3 Apr 2015 at 1:50am Ed Can Do wrote:
The reason communism doesn't work with groups larger than about twenty people is that deep down, people are inherently greedy. It's genetic, we are programmed as all creatures are to do everything we can to gain advantage over our competing organisms. The difference with humans is that we got really good at competing but also got inventive enough that we came up with ways outside of natural selection to assert our dominance.
Being a greedy, self-serving, corrupt, oik who was fortunate enough to have been born into money is sadly the modern human equivalent of being the smug offspring of the first fish to mutate and grow gills.
Whilst we have also developed compassion that has led us to temper our selfishness with a care for others, at present at least, genetic competitiveness is still the over-riding driver of human behaviour.
On 3 Apr 2015 at 2:56pm Bongo wrote:
Ed Can Do, I disagree about your statement that 'people are inherently greedy'. We are all affected very differently by the various things we see and experience, and our judgement and behaviour therefore, is as varied as the weather!
On 3 Apr 2015 at 5:27pm Snare wrote:
Define greed Bongo . It's just self preservation @ a subliminal level. As to the weather it follows patterns around the globe, we perceive variation when we are static
On 3 Apr 2015 at 7:01pm Bongo wrote:
Snare, rather than 'self-preservation', Hobbes defined greed the desire to obtain what could be described as 'common property' for their own private and personal use. Plato describes greed as an evil, and something that tyrants lust after. Rousseau saw greed as bad as selfishness and evilness, emerging as society developed.
Personally, I like Aristotle's observation, in that the desire for things is not entirely wrong. However, the desire to own these things for solely oneself IS wrong.
I could go on, but I don't want to get bogged down in too many definitions, but I think it's quite clear that 'greed' is self-interest, rather than self-preservation.
On 5 Apr 2015 at 12:26am skeptical green wrote:
If people want to pontificate on human nature then it is a good idea to read some neuroscience, anthropology and evolutionary biology first and why not throw in some recent philosophy too. Human beings are primates who have developed highly complex social ways of living overlaid with culture and tradition. The point where instinct and biological drive ends and cultural more starts is very difficult to determine, but it is pretty obvious even from insects that the mid 20th century geneticists idea of the selfish gene with every organism only being selected for traits leading very directly to its own survival is not the whole story. Mutual benefits from cooperation within kin groups and wider social groupings are beneficial in evolutionary terms and just as much part of our nature as a drive for power and domination over others as an individual. Neither Adam Smith nor Karl Marx had this stuff at their fingertips when they were trying to grasp the workings of political economy but we do and we know enough history to see that neither unbridled free market capitalism nor an attempt to marshall the unpredictable world into a state planned workers paradise are the solution to the problems of human society so let's all start thinking about the subtle and often successful ways we have developed of mitigating both the market and our more antisocial impulses and working together to improve our lives and those of our fellow human beings.
On 6 Apr 2015 at 12:04am nevillman wrote:
Very well put Skeptical. Man developed his brain to enable him to deal with social situations. We are social animals. Proof of that is the embarrassment children feel when a social more appears to be broken.
The pessimist in me is aware of man's immense capacity for violence to his fellow man.
The optimist says that man is very clever, can learn well and has shown his ability to overcome huge obstacles.
The realist in me says that we are at some time in the future going to face a serious resource crisis. The natural solution that man in a capitalistic situation and maybe any situation seems to be war and violence.
I am also aware that there appears to be an apocryphal tendency in man to forsee the end of man.