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Fake news

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On Sun 14 Apr at 2:45pm Mark wrote:
What is this gibberish that the Austalian billionaire is saying through his mouthpiece - The Sunday Times? This is the second Sunday in a row that he's devoted his front page to lies and slurs aimed directly at Jeremy Corbyn. The argument about all economic and social issues affecting the UK population distilled down to be "why you must hate this person". Must be running scared now that The Labour Party have a clear lead in all of the polls. Check out Britain Elects... YouGov...
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On Sun 14 Apr at 3:17pm nancy wrote:
Nobody in their right mind would choose a party with Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott as the brains. I'm no fan of party politics but I'd vote for any party if it meant keeping these clowns out of office.
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On Sun 14 Apr at 5:04pm Green Sleeves wrote:
It really couldn't be worse than the fools in power now. I accept some people loathe Corbyn et al, but there is no chance I would prefer the likes of now very well tried and tested incompetent morons like Chris Grayling, Andrea Leadsome, Ian Duncan Smith, Michael Gove, Mark Francois, Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg.

Labour may very well have more accomplished or seemingly "dynamic" statespeople within their party than Corbyn and Abbott, but that is what Labour party members voted for, twice, and Corbyn secured 13m votes against the odds in 2017, and should be taken more seriously by the media. The trouble is that Corbyn represents a greater threat to the media, through a deeper "Leveson" inquiry, which is why they hound and ridicule him. They're terrified, not because they genuinely believe his (Scandinavian and Western European moderate) economic policies would lead to the UK turning into Venezuela, but because it could lead to more regulation on their industry.

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On Sun 14 Apr at 5:18pm Fairmeadow wrote:
If you want the UK economy to go the same way as Venezuela's, voting Corbyn would be an excellent way of achieving it.
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On Sun 14 Apr at 5:55pm Green Sleeves wrote:
How on earth would applying Labour Party 2017 economic policies from their manifesto, result in the UK going down the same road as whats happened to Venezuela? Its a totally facile argument based on media lies and hyperbole, and is about as reliable as a plumbers estimate (yet parroted continually as if its some sort of credible talking point by right-wingers, despite being debunked). Its just a vindictive, hatchet job on Corbyn and democratic socialism, and totally disingenuous.
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On Sun 14 Apr at 7:23pm MrMagoo wrote:
Corbyn is a Bennite. He will follow all the Bennite policies as per the attached image. He wants Brexit, he wants his socialist Marxist policies to be enacted. The issue is these are forty years out of date. The world has moved on.

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On Sun 14 Apr at 7:51pm Basil wrote:
What has the world 'moved on' to Mr Magoo? Something to do with the austerity we've had since the banks got their fingers burned in 2008 and governments decided the rest of us should pay for it?
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On Sun 14 Apr at 8:07pm Tom Pain wrote:
Where has the world moved to? A greater divide between the mega wealthy and the rest. A welfare state for too big to fail banks and corporations and a free market of the poor. The trouble is that socialist governments borrow money at interest from private banks when they could create it themselves.
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On Sun 14 Apr at 10:55pm Basil wrote:
So now tell us Fairmeadow, which policies have they followed in Venezuela that will be in the Labour manifesto? Did you notice that the crash in 2008 wasn't caused by Chavez but by the banks?
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On Sun 14 Apr at 11:48pm Fairmeadow wrote:
Yes, the crash in 2008 was caused by casino banking, and thank God we had Gordon Brown at the helm to navigate us a route out.
Agreed entirely that our present government is abysmal. That does NOT lead to the conclusion that any alternative must be better. You can go from abysmal to cataclysmic, and that is the choice before us. I'm afraid, as a lifetime Labour voter, I'm with Nancy.
What would go wrong Basil? Just look at the debt and thinks who we owe it to. What goes wrong, Basil, is that they lose confidence in your government, decline to lend you any more, and call in what you owe. Your currency crashes, your country goes down the tubes. That is what happened to Zimbabwe, Argentina and Venezuela. The world doesn't owe the UK a living, and only an idiot would think that if couldn't happen here. Just because we have walked the high wire successfully for a few decades, doesn't means we couldn't, with a stupid enough pilot, fall off. Corbyn and co are just such a pilot.
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On Mon 15 Apr at 10:09am Green Sleeves wrote:
Fairmeadow, our massive national debt has been created under the leadership of centrist and right wing parties, particularly caused by lack of regulation in the financial and banking sectors.
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On Mon 15 Apr at 2:24pm Basil wrote:
Fairmeadow, you still haven't said what Labour policies would bring about a Venezuela situation. They seemed very popular at the 2017 election, with the party making the biggest vote increase for many years. Do you think perhaps the US would impose sanctions on a Corbyn government to bring it down?
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On Tue 16 Apr at 10:34am Tom Pain wrote:
The thing is ,fair meadow, the government doesn't need to borrow from banks. Almost everything we think about money is incorrect. Who did Brown go on to work for and at a nice little salary? Thanks very much, Gordon, you've earned it. If you don't know how money is created you cannot understand politics. Cue Richard Werner's videos on YouTube.
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On Tue 16 Apr at 8:29pm Fairmeadow wrote:
The thing is, Tom Pain, the government can create money, but it can't make other people use it, as those countries whose economies were destroyed by economic illiterates discovered. If you buy more than you sell, your money ends up abroad. The only way you get it back is by selling the family silver; in Britain's case, having been doing it for decades, our companies, our airports, our utilities and now our land, our commercial buildings and our houses. But everything is fine, isn't it????
And Basil, you are doubtless entirely confident that Corbyn's reflex responses, consistently maintained over decades, whenever America, Israel or Iran are mentioned will ensure ongoing excellent relationships with the government's of, and our major customers in, North America, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf. But doubtless our new friends in Venezuela and Palestine will step in and fill the gap. Corbyn's infallible grasp of reality will bring us the future we will deserve should we be stupid enough to elect him.
Just because the Tory government is badly led and full of incompetent ministers, it follows that Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell etc must be worth a try you think????
Perhaps we get the government's we deserve.
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On Wed 17 Apr at 8:07am Green Sleeves wrote:
"Venezuela!!", "PALESTINE!", "friends with hamas".... BINGO!

Nobody loves ludicrous debunked tropes more than daily mail right wingers. Their talking points are pretty much set in stone now. Their own paranoia and right wing gutter press have sealed their brainwashed mental state.
 
 
On Wed 17 Apr at 9:35pm Tom Pain wrote:
That's right fairmeadow but we can use it. Perhaps you could explain to the economic illiterates how money is created? They really need to know.
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On Wed 17 Apr at 11:16pm Fairmeadow wrote:
Sadly for your simplistic world view Green Sleeves, I'm a Guardian-readiing pre-Corbyn Labour voter, with several decades as a Labour Party member and activist. But stick with your prejudices if it helps you.
Money, Tom Pain, is these days created by central banks. Whether it is useful when created depends on the confidence global capitalism has in the government's behind those banks. Those who matter in forming that view don't share the Green Sleeves world view. Take them on and you quickly end up like Venezuela. You may not like it that that is how it is. I don't like it that that is how it is. But whether we like it or not is irrelevant. That is how it works. It is called 'confidence'.
 
 
On Thu 18 Apr at 8:24pm Tom Pain wrote:
95+% of our money is created by private banks as loans to customers. I know it sounds unbelievable but it's true. It took me a long time to understand it until the Professor opened my eyes.
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On Thu 18 Apr at 9:22pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Fairmeadow. Do you not think its bordering on preposterous to suggest that the UK would lurk towards Venezuela given the vast difference in the two countries economies, climate, culture and political backgrounds? And based on what? Renationalising railways and levying a few pence in the pound more on the wealthy as per Labours 2017 tax and spending plans? (which was fully costed and backed by economists)
It sounds like you've just accepted the hyperbole and smear campaign against Corbyn, and prefer to assume nonsense, rather than consider that the outlook would look more like the European democratic socialist economies such as the nordic countries and other european neighbours that much of the most recent Labour Party manifesto is inspired by. That seems unrealistic to you, and instead its far more likely we turn into a 3rd world country in South America that the USA has done its utmost to oppress? Okay.
 
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On Thu 18 Apr at 9:59pm Tom Pain wrote:
Just a minor quibble, greenie, about the economists. It's an amazing fact that economic education doesn't include where money comes from! That banks create it out of nothing and then "retire" it when business is concluded. Perhaps that's what Blankfein was referring to when he said that the money that disappeared after the 2008 crash had gone to "money heaven".
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On Thu 18 Apr at 10:07pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Don't call me Greenie, and don't talk any more nonsense.
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On Fri 19 Apr at 7:51pm Tom Pain wrote:
Well I'm disappointed at your lack of intellectual curiosity and your faith in the old, reactionary imperial financial system.


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Closet and Botts 28:142
Closet and Botts

We need a few Victor Meldrew/Hamid Barr rants to spark conversation up. It's temporarily quiet, I hope, and things should liven... more
QUOTE OF THE MOMENT
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell