On Mon 12 Mar at 4:57pm Ms Monstrous wrote:
I don’t know how well known it is, but the government is moving towards self- identification for transsexuals, i.e. any man can just say that he is a woman and then must be accepted as one.
This has major implications for women’s safe spaces. For example, biological men could work in women’s refuges, women would not be able to request a biologically female health care professional, even if they had previously suffered from sexual abuse, and so on.
The planned changes seem to accommodate (mostly, it seems, male to female) transsexuals without any discussion about the effect on women and girls. In fact, women who try to discuss their concerns are being violently suppressed. Milwall football club just backed out of hosting an event for women who wanted to talk about this, saying that they’ve never had harassment like it!
The changes would also affect the ability to record meaningful data on male violence and women’s equality in the workplace, and so on.
The new definition of the word ‘woman’ completely denies biological fact and defines the word instead as something else - a ‘feeling’ that is to do with preferences with regards to dress and a person’s interests. Surely we should be supporting people of both sexes to dress, feel and do whatever they want within the law, not change the meaning of words so that they become meaningless.
There is currently a petition asking for government to discuss the proposals with women’s groups. Please sign
Check it out here »
On Mon 12 Mar at 5:47pm Toby wrote:
I can't believe this hate speech is being published on this forum. Trans people are already suffering enough without your unjustified aggression.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:00pm what a load of BoŁŁocks wrote:
what a load of BoŁŁocks who's trying to convince who? left wing sanctimonious twaddle,
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:05pm Ms Monstrous wrote:
I don't hate anyone and I don't see how this is hate speech. We just want a discussion about the issues. Why is that not allowed?
We don't need more men telling us what we can and cannot do.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:11pm La Rue wrote:
Is Toby's comment satire or has the world gone mad? I'm sure most right-minded people believe that nobody should be persecuted for things they cannot change, whether it's gender, sexuality, race or abilities and I welcome the growth in compassion and tolerance. However, that doesn't mean that we should ignore a woman's right to choose to be amongst other biological women, without having to contend with males who identify as women. For women who have suffered from domestic/sexual abuse, it can be particularly distressing. The rights of Trans people do not supersede those of women who believe that their gender is primarily biological. It is an ongoing debate and fighting for the rights of one group shouldn't mean we trample on the rights of another.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:26pm Alfie wrote:
I don't think many women gave a. ...
..about men's right to have their own spaces. Sauce for the goose etc..
If people can find an edge to exploit they will. It's glorious seeing the nervous looks as the good thinkers try to gauge which bandwagon will leave them with higher value friends......and who they can safely abandon.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:33pm Marycontrary wrote:
Some very incoherent responses. Thumbs up to la rue though, as that’s it in a nutshell. If you do the petition check it hasn’t sent the confirmation email to junk. Sign it. It’s not anti trans it’s about defending fundamental rights for women.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:34pm Quiller wrote:
The concept of "biological sex" is itself a product of oppression manufactured by the patriarchal bullies who rule over us.
We are taking back control of our bodies and liberating them from this hate.
Join with us in celebrating freedom from unnecessary classification.
On Mon 12 Mar at 6:41pm Brian de Teust wrote:
I believe all of this hate speech should be banned from this forum sign my petition here.
Check it out here »
On Mon 12 Mar at 7:01pm fed wrote:
just have them put down ,
On Mon 12 Mar at 7:05pm fed wrote:
well I have a horse. from how I will call it a dog . It will be great walk around town
On Mon 12 Mar at 7:24pm Bertie wrote:
All this fuss over a handful of freaks
On Mon 12 Mar at 8:09pm Seahorse wrote:
On Mon 12 Mar at 8:15pm Lesley wrote:
What a load of Bollox.
On Mon 12 Mar at 8:21pm Curious wrote:
The end of satire is nigh. The most bizarre opinions are taken seriously and the most harmless comments are called hate speech. Oh well I'll turn off my daffodil, put on my shrubbery and go to the sewing machine for a pint of laundry. Hello.
On Tue 13 Mar at 8:34am Not wanted here wrote:
Go and peddle your fear and hatred somewhere else. Better still, go and meet some trans women and find out you have nothing to be scared of. Ignorance breeds fear. Remember Nazi Germany?
On Tue 13 Mar at 9:41am Earl of Lewess wrote:
Nazi Germany? Isn't that where free speech and civilised debate was seen as a threat? Ms Monstrous expressed her opinions in a thoughtful, articulate way - if we're going to call that "hate speech", what words will we have left for the genuine article? Women have the right to express doubts about trans people belonging to their gender. You may not like it, but unlike Nazi Germany, this is still a democracy.
On Tue 13 Mar at 9:44am Ms Monstrous wrote:
I am always suspicious when people try to shut down debate. Reminds me of something.
At the moment women are being violently attacked for crimes such as having attended a meeting, or protesting at Speakers corner.
Many people are too scared to link to the petition on their facebook page for fear of reprisals. A common tactic is to 'doxx' (release home address etc) of people who disagree with the changes, for all the implications this has for safety and workplace discipline, especially for those who work in academia, public services and so on.
The petition is anonymous, btw.
On Tue 13 Mar at 10:44am Verityx wrote:
Privileged cis-white women are trying to make it all about them again.They moved into their positions in academic,medical and publishing world's and want to stop minority and diverse othered people from squeezing their cosy, entitled lives.
On Tue 13 Mar at 11:06am Cis World's othered wrote:
On Tue 13 Mar at 11:07am Curious wrote:
Talk about skewing the debate. It's about psychopathic sexual predators squeezing their way into places where they can menace the vulnerable, whatever social or sexual persuasion they belong to. May I suggest that monstrous's concerns may help protect the people verityx is advocating for.
On Tue 13 Mar at 11:09am Ms Monstrous wrote:
Verityx. Please don't use the term 'cis'. I don't speak your 'newspeak'.
I strongly agree that transpeople face a great deal of discrimination and that they have many issues that need to be resolved.
They are not the same issues that biological women have, however, pretending that they are the same helps nobody.
BTW - is Linda Bellos a privileged white woman?
On Tue 13 Mar at 11:24am Earl of Lewess wrote:
Exactly. By all means create more gender neutral spaces and ensure that trans people aren't discriminated against, but let's maintain some common sense. It's interesting how so many people who argue in favour of 'non-binary' status have a very binary approach to debating - if you're not 100% in agreement with them, you must therefore be the enemy. There's not much room for nuance.
On Tue 13 Mar at 11:55am Verityx wrote:
Your privileging of nuance and debate shows how divorced from reality you are. Safe in your cosy,white, middle class world you are so naive you think people actually care about your opinions (which were given to you by establishment media like TV and newspapers. )Talk about dinosaurs! Get out of the way...you are done!
On Tue 13 Mar at 1:50pm Earl of Lewess wrote:
@Verityx - The 'privileging' of nuance and debate is a sign of maturity, education and intelligence, not a detachment from reality. You're very quick to make assumptions about other people's lives, with no actual evidence and it is arrogant to assume that an opinion that differs from yours is a result of slavishly following the media. You say that our time is done. God help us all if you're the future. Only the Putins and Trumps of this world will celebrate your coming.
On Tue 13 Mar at 1:56pm realism wrote:
Blimey, I hadn't realised we were being overrun by transexuals! How about everyone takes a chill pill.
On Tue 13 Mar at 3:17pm Proud to be normal wrote:
We are not being overrun by anybody. It is just another case of a very small minority saying "Look at me! I wish to be different. I demand special treatment!".
On Tue 13 Mar at 3:35pm Earl of Lewess wrote:
@Proud - I don't think anyone chooses their gender of sexuality.
On Tue 13 Mar at 3:43pm Ms Monstrous wrote:
And this is what we're up against. Generally people like me are referred to as TERFs - Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists - actually I regard myself as a very ordinary feminist.
Have a look at some of the on line abuse we get -
Check it out here »
On Tue 13 Mar at 3:54pm Discord wrote:
Remind me again how many sons Germaine Greer has?
On Tue 13 Mar at 4:00pm Earl of Lewess wrote:
It's baffling that this moronic, aggressive behaviour has become a socially acceptable form of virtue signalling. The TERF argument is perfectly legitimate, whether you agree with it or not and to reach a point where people like Julie Bindell are being silenced is bonkers. It should be an ongoing debate, conducted in an atmosphere of empathy and mutual respect.
On Tue 13 Mar at 4:14pm Discord wrote:
It always surprises me that people can't be bothered to research the lineage of their opinions.
Have these feminists ever read any of the literature of their own revolutionary movement? Do they really think they can just stop the roller-coaster wherever is comfortable for themselves?
If you destroy a system that has produced you you can't expect the chaos that ensues to value you?
Feminists, if you seek your monument I suggest you go to Telford.
On Tue 13 Mar at 4:21pm Not wanted here wrote:
Please swap the word 'trans' for any other minority group, including women, and see what happens. I can't believe we are questioning peoples right to exist! Totally a privileged cis (non-trans if you prefer) stance. Radical feminism was appropriate and needed in the 1970s and early 80s, but times move on as we learn more about people and their experiences. Feminism has moved on.
On Tue 13 Mar at 4:38pm Ms Monstrous wrote:
Nobody is questioning anyone's right to exist - Not wanted here. Where did anyone say that?
Times may move on but biological fact is biological fact.
A question for trans activists - please define the word 'woman'.
On Tue 13 Mar at 4:45pm Earl of Lewess wrote:
Is anyone questioning their right to exist?
On Tue 13 Mar at 5:59pm woke wrote:
There are Males and Females, all others are mentally ill and need therapy as well as a clean water supply and food supply as well as less medication that disrupts the natural hormone balance.
anyone supporting this ridiculous agenda is destroying society and causing even more mental illness and civil unrest.
How come they want to blur the lines with gender yet create even more divide with race. Race is actually blurred and this separatist approach the left has to race is ridiculous.
On Tue 13 Mar at 7:32pm Ms Monstrous wrote:
Peace and love to all.