On 19 Jun 2016 at 12:39pm PN wrote:
You-Gov and Optima have picked up a late swing to Remain, this is based on polling before the murder of Joe Cox by a man who screamed, “Death to traitors, freedom for Britain" in court, somewhat undermining the efforts of Brexiteers to deny this was a political killing. Optima have it neck and neck .
From despair to hope , I have no idea if this dreadful murder will make people pause, or the cold analysis of the IMF and the economic destruction we face will wake them up. Evidence is already mounting of a flight of capital and plummeting investment ( Says Robert Peston ) but do people fully grasp that this means their job , their house, their taxes their security ?
The Brexit case has been based on two lies
LIE 1- IMMIGRATION -TWO ISSUES NOT ONE
1 Freedom of Movement
EU Freedom of movement ,allowing about 2,000,000 Brit to go abroad and the same number of EU citizens here . This is wholly beneficial to services revenue schools and growth.
1- New Commonwealth Mass Immigration
New Commonwealth migration driven by arranged marriages and exponentially expanding claims for family unity .In my own view continued tolerance of diversity will not be maintained by ignoring the claims and feelings of the the English. We have seen a working class revolt against this project.
It has been the constant effort of Brexit to pretend one is the same as the other ( hence the posters featuring brown people when EU migrants are white ) and this is a lie. Whatever your view , one things certain; Post Brexit we will have the same issue but with far less resources to help solve it.
LIE 2 ECONOMICS
The markets , the economics profession , the Bank of England , the IMF , the Institute of Fiscal Studies , The treasury The Chinese State , The President ,George Osbourne, Ed Balls, John Major, Unison, Gordon Brown and every respected voice there is have told us that leaving the EU is potentially catastrophic. .
Brexit try to pretend that our net contributions which , without even counting our rebate, are £8bn (0.5% of GDP) can be set against the destruction of the economy
This is just nonsense as many of the people pretending it is not ,know perfectly well.
A vote Brexit is vote for the unemployment of your neighbours , brutal austerity interest rates and taxes rising and a betrayal of our children.
WE CAN ALL HELP
In this last few days I implore every remainer to speak to the undecided , put the case as well as you can ( Sorry I am not much good at it ). We have a few days to save the country from irreparable self harm
LET US HOPE THE GOOD SENSE OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY WILL PREVAIL
No more from me on this forum you will be pleased to hear .
On 19 Jun 2016 at 12:44pm Lewes Voter 3 wrote:
Nobody has dared to suggest "remain" to my face and that's the way it'll stay. There isn't a jot of support where I live. VOTE LEAVE. STOP THE COMMON MARKET DRAINING BRITAIN DRY OF HOMES JOBS & THE NHS. VOTE LEAVE.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 1:15pm PeNis wrote:
Get a grip PN, the people that supported brexit last week still do and visa versa remain. Anyone who changes their vote as a result of this was neither voting with head or heart in the first place, political or mental health issues I know not but how you associate this with people's desires to take back control astounds me. Not many people respect your opinion you'll influence no one with this drivel.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 2:02pm Below the belt wrote:
The latest stunt from Farage & UKIP is disgusting, posing in front of a stream of people seeking refuge from their own country that is under siege or at war with terrorists. Is this the depths to which a British citizen will stoop to try to secure leaving the EU. If the role was reserved would he feel the same, fleeing his country of birth to avoid terrorism & war ? I doubt it because as a combined Europe it would never happen. Ashamed, appalled, disgusted. That's not what being British is about ! We are a proud, yet compassionate people. Let's see some compassion to others, and sense for ourselves.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 4:00pm Clifford wrote:
You'll have to remind us once again PN why you are so in favour of a neo-liberal project that has the total support of the bankers who took us into the 2008 crisis, and the politicians who never saw it coming. What exactly is it about the EU that can unite these people?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 4:24pm Southstreeter wrote:
Is it my imagination or can I smell fear and desperation from the Bremainers ?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:11pm SouthStreeter 2 wrote:
Ah Southstreeter - you must be the one person in South Street displaying a leave poster, all the many others are sensibly displaying Remain - the sensible rational option.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:26pm I'M IN... wrote:
...different to the plight of the working class and young people.
Nothing like a bunch of rich twits doing the bidding of big banks.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:36pm bastian wrote:
Beter the devil you know, because behind the out campaigne are those willing and waiting to strip you, the working man and woman, even the working classes (we all are) of your employment rights that aredsacresnact under the EU court of justice. If you are a fool you will vote yourself, and all of the rest of us out of a system designed and upheld for your frredom, and inot the hands of men who eant to lash you to the wheel of money-they are not interested in your freedpm, happiness or views, you are justa cog in their machine that make smoney which you will not be a part of-because thye will be able to pay you a poultry sum form their huge pockets, and skina maggot to make sre their money is not handed out to anyone else. If you thought things were unequla now, wait and see the world through Brexit.
Vote wisely, vote for yourself, your employment rights, not a money hugger.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:43pm Clifford wrote:
bastian wrote: 'Beter the devil you know, because behind the out campaigne are those willing and waiting to strip you, the working man and woman, even the working classes (we all are) of your employment rights that aredsacresnact under the EU court of justice.'
Which is presumably why the French trade unions are having to call strikes and mount demonstrations to try to prevent their EU-friendly 'socialist' government from removing many of the employment rights they've fought for. Why won't you peope understand that the EU project is a neo-liberal austerity project and not the cuddly social democratic project you'd love to imagine?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 5:43pm Geoff Paddle wrote:
I'll sell my vote for a pint and a packet of pork scratchings.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 6:15pm Campaigne Charley wrote:
Bottoms up - champers for all if we leave. Sacresnacts to re- mainers.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 6:41pm theendoftheouse wrote:
I would like to hear from Bob Geldof (Where is he hiding up?) whether he feels that his two fingers to the fishermen last Wednesday afternoon might have angered many people across the country. MP Jo Cox was also on The Thames that afternoon and with the antics of Bob Geldof being reported nationwide I believe BG should shoulder some blame for the killing of the MP.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 7:03pm camera man wrote:
Vote leave . Immigration getting out of hand . If they are running from a war why pass though 5 or more safe havens . 1,000s of them just wishing to get to the uk ok . Which bring me onto housing N H S local G.PS . schools list gos on . If you wish to let more and more immigrant. Well let the live with you
On 19 Jun 2016 at 7:41pm wrote:
"No more from me on this forum you will be pleased to hear"
Well, yes of course we will be, just like we were all the other times you made that promise.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:01pm Jerry wrote:
Those describing themselves as 'working class' on this seem convinced that they are doing themselves a favour by voting Leave, instead of just bloodying the noses of 'establishment' bogeymen and women. Brexit will be a hollow victory for the low paid and disenfranchised, a steep price to pay just so that Old Etonian Boris Jonson can be head boy and that smug xenophobe Farage can look even smugger. Brexit will only bring job losses and a bonfire of worker rights, while Britain proud and alone in the world is a cruel delusion. Do you really think that self-serving but horribly lazy Johnson is going to take you any sunny uplands? Or that Farage has any ideas beyond taking us out of Europe?
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:19pm Pat wrote:
Looking at the people behind the Leave campaign I'd be very worried if they ever got true unregulated power. Dominic Cummings, who is director of the official Leave campaign is the one who came up with the “Take back control” meme and he is as dodgy as Gove and Farrage. What we will be doing is actually throwing all control to the wind. The “control” certainly won't be in the hands of the average working person in Britain.
The Leave controlling elites want market-driven tumult and chaos for their new cut-throat ecosystem of unregulated hyper-capitalism to “cope with a risky, fast-changing world”.
This explains the deliberate chaos of Gove’s free school movement, or the steady marketisation of health services – indeed, the relentless marketisation of everything. Inequality, in this picture, is required for the whole ecosystem to work properly.
The fate of the post-Brexit state will be to stand even further back than at present, and let a maelstrom of markets and digital technology rip. Citizens and workers are to scrabble for some kind of “niche” in the whole mess.
There's no sense that international co-operation and standards – particularly in terms of environmental factors, or weapons proliferation, or health and poverty reduction, or workers’ protections, or human rights – might actually be the best way to “cope with a risky, fast-changing world”.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 8:37pm . wrote:
Jerry go back to school if you can't understand the difference between the EU and a geographical continent.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 9:04pm Local wrote:
The Remain posters majority reminds me of all the Green and Labour posters 14 months ago.
"Look at me and my intelligent opinion". Not the way the silent majority are thinking.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 9:30pm Jerry wrote:
. Pedantry and invective - the sound of an exhausted argument.
Local, you obviously find Remain posters threatening to your assumptions. Who's to say what the silent majority are thinking - quite possibly they're having a good, hard think about their personal finances and the reality of the dream they are being sold about their future under Brexit
On 19 Jun 2016 at 9:49pm . wrote:
Tell us your arguments then Jerry? Without resorting to boring scare stories that you can't back up or whining about personalities you don't like.
You have no idea what you're on about. Lots of people from labour and trade unions campaigning for leave but you didn't mention them did you as it doesn't fit your narrow minded agenda .
On 19 Jun 2016 at 9:54pm Dave c wrote:
If I love my family and this green land I will have to vote out out
If you do not give a fu#k about the uk vote to say in
On 19 Jun 2016 at 10:21pm Earl of Lewes wrote:
Voting to leave the EU doesn't automatically result in a Boris/Farage government. I will be voting to leave the EU, then I will work towards defeating the Conservatives in 2020, if not sooner.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 10:25pm Mark wrote:
PN.... What a hoot! Tales told by an idiot who struts and frets.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 10:29pm Mark wrote:
I'm going to vote remain but your arguments are still utterly absurd. I think that you've made a wise decision to spend the rest of the week lying down in a darkened room with a cold towel on your head.
On 19 Jun 2016 at 11:36pm Jerry wrote:
. It's late and since you have already decided that I don’t know what I'm talking about then I won't bother to yabba yabba yabba. Sweet dreams, because that's what they are
On 20 Jun 2016 at 12:27am janet street preacher wrote:
I want to be part of a world that works together not a country that sets itself apart for fear of being invaded.
I want to be a team player.
I want to connect with people of all races and religions
I want to live in a country with a reputation for friendliness I've been to so many countries whose people are so much more welcoming than us and I'm ashamed of the way we are so unfriendly/unwelcoming
Vote connect, together, belong, IN
On 20 Jun 2016 at 6:47am Cuckoo's Nest wrote:
Modern Lewes (pseudo-hippies, intolerant lefties and pretentious DFL'S) are attracted to the Remain vote. I hope common sense prevails elsewhere.
On 20 Jun 2016 at 8:14am bastian wrote:
the only reason immigration is out of hand is becasue the Russians want to break up europe-it's in the interests of their oligarchs to split europe up and so they messed with Syria to get what they want
On 20 Jun 2016 at 9:18am george wrote:
Immigration is not out of control in England but is in fact very strictly controlled. There is a refugee crisis in Europe which is a separate issue. These are people fleeing war and climate change which is a global problem and will quite likely get worse. To combat these issues we need global cooperation and not isolationism. If countries start isolating themselves and withdrawing from international treaties then we're all going to be screwed.
If the Leave campaigners were really that concerned about migration then they would look for a solution to alleviate the causes and lessen the impacts. Instead they want put their heads in the sand and shut out the world which is going to make the situation a whole lot worse for everyone including them.
On 20 Jun 2016 at 9:56am Observer wrote:
"Why won't you peope understand that the EU project is a neo-liberal austerity project and not the cuddly social democratic project you'd love to imagine?"
That may be true Clifford, but it will be an exercise in moderation compared to the extremes that Gove, Johnson and Cummings et al will bring in their wake. Try reading this
Check it out here »
On 20 Jun 2016 at 10:58am Momo wrote:
At the heart of the leave campaign is an irreducible core of English xenophobia, ignorant if the wider world, even proudly so.
When history comes to be written that terrorist murder in Yorkshire will be an indelible stain on the leave campaign.
On 20 Jun 2016 at 11:15am Fred2016 wrote:
Momo......so sad to see your ill informed comment. The man has mental health problems which have not had sufficient medical support from NHS due to cut backs in mental health provision over last few years. Nothing to do with in or out of EU...
On 20 Jun 2016 at 11:48am Mono wrote:
Mental health problems? Poor chap, long history or racist rightwing involvement, possesseion of weapons, he knew who the MP was and what she stood for, he even shouted his battle cry. Very clear indeed. If it had been Allahu Akbar you wouldnt try to minimize & forgive with this 'mental health' sicknote. The killer of Lee Rigby, was he a terrorist or just another unlucky mental case let down by the system? But of course, being black so, he's a murdering terrorist. The recent killers in france & belgium - terrorists of mental health cases?
just wait & see what history makes of it.
On 20 Jun 2016 at 12:05pm More bull wrote:
Momo, looks like you have missed the point made by fred2016. Best that you stop posting on this topic.
On 20 Jun 2016 at 1:58pm Fred2016 wrote:
More bull..thanks for a balanced view. Let's get real.