Lewes Forum thread

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boys and blues

On 5 Nov 2012 at 11:01pm chris huang-zhe wrote:
people in crowd threw blues tonight and arrests made from marchers in ranks
On 5 Nov 2012 at 11:36pm Jude wrote:
I saw two Commerical Sq lads being hauled over by police. Also saw police filming crowd from atop reservoir by St Annes. Meanwhile on school Hill they were too busy watching the marchers to keep control of the drunk students spilling into procession.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 12:13am Extra wrote:
Be the first to say only 365 days to go!
On 6 Nov 2012 at 12:45am Bruciare il Papa wrote:
Police just informed me that they have filled every cell between here and Durrington (pity the poor sods trapped in greater Worthing!)
On 6 Nov 2012 at 1:57am Bollocks wrote:
Really? Sussex Police web site says there were only 15 arrests this year, the lowest for some time - bit why let the facts get in the way of posting on the internet?
PS Bruciare il Papa - you are an idiot!
On 6 Nov 2012 at 2:00am Ed Can Do wrote:
I thought the police presence was particularly light tonight actually, I hardly noticed them. No arrests in the Cliffe procession that I saw although it's hard to see much behind you from the front. Very well behaved with no bangers at all until we were into Ham Lane and even the last walk was pretty restrained. It was a bit weird there being no bangs earlier in the evening but it was still an awesome night out, as ever. Well done to everyone involved!
On 6 Nov 2012 at 6:05am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Although the numbers of police on the streets seemed lower than usual, I thought there seemed to be more officers attached to societies than in previous years. South Street alone had 4 or 5, which seemed a bit much.
Do they normally wear a label showing which society they are attached to? It's the first time I've noticed it.
And why were cars still coming along the causeway and up School Hill at nearly 5.30? Southover were trying to start their remembrance ceremony and had to keep moving to let cars through.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 7:57am Local wrote:
I thought it was all rather subdued.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 9:28am I repeat wrote:
The Cliffe with no bangs. Did you ever expect that? Bye bye bonfire, hello carnival. We've been druv. Sooner than I thought. Mark my words
On 6 Nov 2012 at 9:56am Sussex Jim wrote:
We can't be druv. We have a year to design a banger that can be dropped without the potential to cause injuries.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 10:09am Deelite wrote:
Police estimate 30,000 at #lewesbonfire. 20,000 went by train.

32-year-old man arrested for throwing fireworks at a female Sussex Police inspector

Police arrested a total of 11 people mainly for throwing fireworks and possession of drugs

20-year-old woman hit in the face with a firework in Westgate Street

24-year-old man arrested for throwing fireworks and possession of cannabis -fined and given a warning for drugs

25-year-old man has been arrested for possession of an offensive weapon (a barbecue fork!?)

Not bad really.

On 6 Nov 2012 at 10:23am m wrote:
At least some of the people in the crowd had a few rookies to let off. Now the societies have rolled over and aren't using bangers in the march more and more people who come to watch will start bringing their own. Lots of people I talked to in the crowd last night were saying they'll be stocking up on their own bangers for next year to keep the spirit going
On 6 Nov 2012 at 12:25pm Ed Can Do wrote:
Cliffe with no bangs? Spot the people who went home before midnight then...
On 6 Nov 2012 at 1:18pm Tony wrote:
Its carnival time!!!!!!!
Especially Cliffe with their party poppers at the war memorial!
On 6 Nov 2012 at 1:31pm The Greek wrote:
I must say the policing was totally unproportionate, badly organised and generally pretty damn non-existent!
They seem to be very selective in how you break the same law... Crackers are fine. Rookies are not. I know I let off some rookies down School Hill - they had nothing to say about it until the precinct...
The police succeeded last night in creating a very anti-police feel when in fact we need to work together to keep bonfire going.
Arrest the idiots walking through the procession, picking up torches, being rowdy and letting off rookies in the crowd... Oh wait they were too busy getting hung up on people doing what we've always done for years in the procession.
Get a grip Sussex Police. I find it surprising none of the PCC candidates have tried to woo the bonfire vote yet...
On 6 Nov 2012 at 3:55pm Csbs boy wrote:
There was still a lot of noise at the back of the Commercial procession. We won't be druv!!! Police didn't really mind unless you were stupid with them (like dropping them under their feet)
On 6 Nov 2012 at 5:58pm Concerned Onlooker wrote:
I watched a gang of begoggled police pull two boys out of the CSBS procession for dropping obviously red rookies safely under their own feet and aggressively bully them in a corner while ignoring a huge volley of bangs directly behind them - when this was pointed out by a concerned female society member, she was told with a snarl that they were 'dealing with this one at the moment' and she was threatened with arrest for interfering.
As others have said, potential trouble in the crowd was ignored routinely in pursuit of the persecution of society members. Policing was clearly targeted against the community by an out of town force (regularly to be seen consulting maps).
It is dangerous. When police focus on enforcing a rule that appears arbitrary to a population - as the enforcing of a ban on all drop downs does (the boys dropping them know from long experience that the reds are safe and exactly why the blues have become dangerous) - then they undermine the idea that the rule of law is a rational and sensible objective; and they undermine the sense that they are policing with the general consent of the population.
It will seem an overstatement, but if these things are undermined then the foundation of the police's legitimacy is undermined too. There is no way that that can end well.
Brilliant as last night was (loved Borough's funeral for the blue on the court steps!) the early part of the evening had the sense of an event conducted with the permission of the police and government. That is not how things are supposed to work. The police should facilitate our freedom, not grant it.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 6:28pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Top post, CO.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 6:59pm Woody wrote:
Concerned Onlooker - my thoughts entirely, just thought I'd add a couple of observations.
All the big 'praetorian guard' police decked out in near riot gear manned the juvenile processions at 5:30pm very bravely. Strange how they were nowhere to be seen after around 10:30pm, especialy down the Cliffe end of town. This was where I saw loads of drunken students/visitors staggering around completly out of control. They were swigging vodka and other spirts from bottles and then vomiting almost immediately. Doorways were urinated in by teenage girls and collapsing youths. One guy openly snorted something and promptly let off a firework. The only police present were two charming police women 'from Crawley' who had never been to Lewes Bonfire before. I audibly heard one of them shout 'Jesus Bloody Christ' as a huge bang went off behind her. Made me smile, but her burlier colleagues should have been there to sort out the rowdier element. (The drunks, not the rookie chuckers)
It was an evening of two halves for me. 0 - 0 at halftime them Lewes Bonfire came into it's own later on with true bonfire spirit.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 7:01pm Bonfire Boy wrote:
Agreed. A copy should be sent to every Society in time for their debriefs with BLOs although I suspect everyone already knows that the Police got the details very wrong.
However, I was a tiny bit envious of those sat in the warm Surrey Police van on Albion Street after midnight, stuffing their faces with yet more food, whilst probably on overtime, at our expense. I'm sure they weren't alone.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 7:52pm Slim Jim wrote:
Lol BB. As I was walking last night it crossed my mind how many fat coppers there are
On 6 Nov 2012 at 8:06pm Bonfire Boy wrote:
Indeed. People used to marvel at how rozzers were getting younger and younger as time went on. Now they're getting fatter and fatter.
On 6 Nov 2012 at 11:40pm Captain wrote:
The police are never around or interested in all the side roads where the drunks are and where the trouble happens with either crimes against residents cars or properties. They should give the societies a break and allow the procession to drop rookies and clamp down on antisocial behaviour elsewhere...
There just never seems to be any well thought through balance to policing lewes.
On 7 Nov 2012 at 11:00am another CSBS boy wrote:
Concerned Onlooker - at what point did you see the police pull the two CSBS boys and where? Was it going up the High St or down in the United Grand, and did you notice whether they were behind the last 'For Independence' banner?
On 7 Nov 2012 at 11:36am Jude wrote:
They were pulled out inbetween the two last bands in the UGP as we marched down High St. They were not in the end section. TBH I don't remember which part of street - it could have been by Con Club, or could have been further down past castle. Was distracted by the amount of people spilling into procession and not watching out for my torch !
Friends at the back of the march said they were hemmed in by police walking alongside, which seems outrageous to me.
Also - well said CO.
On 7 Nov 2012 at 11:51am Illuminated wrote:
Saw two plain clothes policemen filming for at least 10 minutes from the area around Nero/Monsoon.
Their attention was focused entirely on the societies.
If I were in a society, I would be filing a FOI request right now for access to all footage shot on the the night and an explanation of why it was taken.
Remember that the police are instruments of the state, they have a track record of cover up/denial/self protection/fit-up and frame, going back many years.
Individually I know that there are some fine people serving but as a unit they are not to be trusted. They serve the queen, they are crown agents.
Thats and official term not something I made up btw.
On 7 Nov 2012 at 3:39pm ITS-ME! wrote:
There were plenty of drop downs in our final procession to final prayers albeit scavenged reds from the firecrackers...frankly much preferable to the Blues which were awful to march through! The set pieces with flares and Chinese firecrackers happened at there normal points in the grand procession, so there were plenty of bangs to be had! The police let us be on the final procession to prayers which was fair considering the streets had cleared! That is the way it should have been last year but people just took it too far!
The societies had to behave and show balance this year, all the people complaining I have a hunch are not really people who are members or march with the societies! Fact is over the years the drop downs have got worse and worse with last year being particularly awful...all the complainers probably haven't experienced the pain from a blue hit as you walk over it or the welts that cover your body the next day! Also this is the first time in twelve years that I have not needed ear plugs to protect my hearing as I march...that is something that many fellow society members commented on the night was a positive development! I could actually hear what was going on rather then walking in with a slight muffled sound daze the whole evening!
It was the general agreement that only the later processions would have significant drop downs in the past, that norm had been eroded over the years until last year when we marched through a barrage of painful Blues! The societies had to show balance and arguably people were cautious on Monday but we now have a baseline to work from!
Maybe the complainers who whine about the quieter night should get off their backsides next year join a society and discover what we do to make it a fun night! The Bonfire societies are not your private dancing monkeys!
On 7 Nov 2012 at 7:09pm Concerned Onlooker wrote:
@another CSBS boy
The incident I saw was during the United Grand going down, Opposite the British Heart Foundation shop, definitely after the Tableaux, can't be sure if after the last banner.

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