On 1 Dec 2011 at 8:30pm Clifford wrote:
I wonder if anyone could explain something that's been niggling at me. We're always told there are no big capitalists with top hats these days because all the shares are really ours as they're in our pension funds. But if, as the Daily Mail tells us, 'Of the total private sector workforce of 23.1million, only 3.3million ‚?? a paltry 14 per cent ‚?? are in a company scheme', where has all that money gone? I mean, it can't all have been taken by Gordon.
Do you think perhaps the wealthy have nicked all the money and that's why they're now setting private sector workers against public sector workers in the hope that no-one finds them out?
On 2 Dec 2011 at 1:07am Not from around here wrote:
On 2 Dec 2011 at 1:57am Fartington Greedbucket wrote:
Actually an awfull lot of it went up my nose at Oxford with Dave , Ozzy and Boris!
On 2 Dec 2011 at 12:42pm brixtonbelle wrote:
Good point Clifford.
It seems that most new joiners to a company scheme (if there is one) go onto stocks an share related schemes, meaning there is no guaranteed final payout as it is totally dependant on the value of the shares your pension contributions have bought at the time of your retirement. Essentially you are at the mercy of the financial markets. Your pension contributions fund the banks and traders and hedge funds.
Incidentally the subject was raised on Question Time last night. Ken Clarke gave avery poor show, but MP Chukka Umana and the teachers/lecturers union rep and Dragon's den Deborah Meadon all made a lot of sense.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 1:37pm I knew it wrote:
At last Brixtonbelle, someone who is prepared to deal in facts.
The Private sector pensions are indeed at the mercy of the financial markets, whereas the public sector live off the backs of the taxpayers.
That is why there have so many heated arguments on this and other Forum's.
Workers who are in private schemes, in the main, get a poorer deal and are also expected to pay out for unsustainable pensions in the Public sector.
Thank you for your unbiased input, it could save days like yesterday happening if everyone could understand how the real world operates.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 1:55pm Paul Newman wrote:
Reading the sort of comment I have seen here from most I have concluded that the two parts of the country no longer have anything to say to eachother worth saying.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 2:07pm Not from around here wrote:
Sadly Paul, you are probably right but don't give up anyway!
On 2 Dec 2011 at 2:21pm Dingo wrote:
Yes unfortunately Paul I`m afraid I see the beginnings of a kind of civil war in this dis united kingdom.Our different economic and social interests have given rise to two very different visions of the of the future.These divisions have always been there it is true but whilst capitalism was able to provide economic growth and excess borrowing by both individuals and goverments of both political persuasion enabled a majority of individual to experience at least the illusion of the good life then those antagonisms remained relatively dormant .Now though as the smoke clears and the mirrors break and our true position in the pecking order becomes a lot more obvious then the old question "whose side are you on" returns with a vengeance and demands a commitment to one side or the other.The time of fudging is over.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 2:32pm Not from around here wrote:
Dingo - as I said in another thread, this is not a question of 'us' and 'them'. It's all 'us' including the government.
Your attitude is what is most damaging to all of us - you WANT to divide people.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 2:44pm Dingo wrote:
Sorry dick brain if you think that you and your ideolgical playmates have anything in common with me and the people I call mine then you are deluded.To return to your pevious badly chosen analogy of a burning building,I wouldn`t piss on you if you were on fire.As far as I am concerned you are my enemy.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 2:52pm Not from around here wrote:
Dingo, you must be very sad little person with a deep-seated sense of bitterness and inferiority to always respond in this way. I feel very sorry for people with a genuine belief in their cause (even if I don't agree with it) because they will only be damaged by your bitterness and hatred.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:07pm Clifford wrote:
Not from round here - if it's 'all 'us' including the government' aren't you talking about a one party state where any opposition is disloyal? The government's policy is a choice - there are other possibilities.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:13pm Not from around here wrote:
Of course there are other choices - I would defend anybodies right to have other views, however extremely opposed to mine they might be. What I think is counterproductive is for Dingo to descend everything into a bitter, divisive 'them' or 'us' argument and that you must choose one or the other. Why?
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:21pm Dingo wrote:
No I`m a very sad big person very angry and bitter with the lack of vision compassion and intelligence exhibited by small minded greedy individuals like yourself.As for the people who share my cause as you put it they are as bloody angry as I am.As for damaging my cause as far as I am am concerned I presume you are an adult with at least one or two brain cells left?If you have`t the nouse to grasp the true situation that we find ourselves in today ,then you are either at lot less intelligent than I gave you credit for or terminally avaricious and selfish.Either way I don` care if you respect my opinions or not I do not seek the approval of the stupid or the greedy.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:41pm Dingo wrote:
I know your act and believe it is an act you have managed to convince yourself that you are a fair minded jolly decent sort of chap that sees the other blokes point of view.This is not a game of bloody cricket on a Sunday afternoon,Lives are at risk here.we are about to face a serious onslaught on the lives of ordinary working people in this country.Elderly people willl die, whole communities will decend into anarchy as police numbers are cut ,only th wealthy will have access to good health care and a decent education.There are no other points of view that make any sense any more this is a disaster for our country.the rich are pulling up the drawbridge and retreating inside their fortified mansions whilst the rest of us will be thrown to the dogs ,.Wake up for God`s sake and smell the tear gas.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:44pm Not from around here wrote:
Keep going - you're doing yourself the world of good dingo.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 3:51pm Dingo wrote:
Don`t say I didn`t warn you.I`ll see you on the barricades. it`s up to you which side you stand.I hope we stand together but you don`t give me room for much optimism.Good luck.
On 2 Dec 2011 at 10:34pm Zebedee wrote:
I'm going to lie down.
On 3 Dec 2011 at 7:45am Clifford wrote:
Not from around here wrote: 'What I think is counterproductive is for Dingo to descend everything into a bitter, divisive 'them' or 'us' argument and that you must choose one or the other. Why?'
So you haven't made a choice then? Why is it 'divisive' to disagree with what the government is doing? If it is I assume you believe any opposition is 'disloyal'. On to the one-party state, eh?
On 3 Dec 2011 at 9:13am Nanny State wrote:
Hi Dingo, it looks like, in your case, that 'care in the community' is just not working.
Leave us an indication of where you are currently dossing and I'll send the men in white coats along equipped with a straight jacket.
You really should come back inside for your own safety.
On 3 Dec 2011 at 11:30am Clifford wrote:
I see Nanny State is turning to the last resort of those incapable of presenting a coherent argument.
On 3 Dec 2011 at 12:21pm Nanny Stae wrote:
Looks like a coach may be needed eh Clifford? All aboard!
On 3 Dec 2011 at 12:36pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Private pensions are run by companies who declare a "pension holiday" whenever the funds are performing well, add nothing extra when they're performing badly and therefore discover that their commitment to defined benefits is unsustainable, because they didn't add enough enough in the good times to ride out the bad. (A bit like those people who remortgage every time there's a tenner's worth of equity in their house, then end up in negative equity when prices drop).
They are also often managed by companies who charge ludicrously high management fees, regardless of whether their gambling with your money pays off or not. This erodes the fund still further.
That's why defined benefit schemes no longer exist in most of the private sector. The private sector seems to believe that all pensions should be reduced to their level, rather than fight for theirs to be increased to the public sector level. It's particularly galling for those within a few years of retirement, who have been supporting their predecessors' generous pensions while being denied the same for themselves.