On Mon 27 May at 9:56am nancy wrote:
That is all.
On Mon 27 May at 10:06am Green Sleeves wrote:
Well done "Nasty Nigel"! A true patriot.
Yes, its always heartening to see a racist, xenophobic, bigoted demagogue sweep to an election victory. How proud we must all be to see a man who has made a career out of scapegoating immigrants (whilst marrying them) and picking on refugees, to push his self-serving agenda. What a guy!
On Mon 27 May at 10:41am Sensible wrote:
Absolutely beautiful. A massive majority across the country. The Conservative Party now has no mandate to govern and could be swept from power by popular forces without the delay or undemocratic fuss of a further election. The referendum of 2016 and two elections showing massive majorities for parties supporting withdrawal are all that I need to see. Mr. Farage and patriotic, talented advisors such as Mr. Banks, Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rees-Mogg command the respect of the British people, and must now be placed in direct control of the mechanisms of the state which must be accountable to the leader alone. Three times we have wasted our efforts on votes that merely repeat the same story. Now we are taking back Britain, closing the borders, then restoring our traditional industries and social structure, which were the envy of the world. The majority vote at this election proves it. Those who would take control and dismiss, then judge, our enemies have the full approval of the people behind them.
On Mon 27 May at 10:46am Sam wrote:
With 39% Brexit leave and 44% stay parties, God knows what the Labour Party voters wanted, there has to be another vote. Next time could we please have some facts out there about what we now know will probably happen to this country with a hard Brexit or any Brexit for that matter.
On Mon 27 May at 11:13am Basil wrote:
Greensleeves, are EU citizens moving to the UK 'immigrants' in the sense you mean? I thought we were all 'Europeans' with freedome of movement. What you should be upset about is a policy the guarantees entry to predominantly white incomers but is tougher in its treatment of non-whites from outside the EU. That coyld be called 'racism'.
On Mon 27 May at 11:29am nancy wrote:
Labour now say they must change to a remain party. They haven't got a clue.
On Mon 27 May at 11:48am Green Sleeves wrote:
@basil - I don't have a problem with any kind of immigrants - the diverse europeans from within the EU, the british immigrants that live in Spain, Portugal, France, the middle east and Australia (and use the cute term "ex-pats" to refer to themselves as) and immigrants from all over the world that come live here, but its laughable to suggest Farage and his ilk are somehow champions of non-EU immigration.....they use the term "controlled borders", but we know, as the poster "Sensible" posted above, that basically means close down immigration/borders. They can hide their intolerance and bigotry behind blaming "the big bad EU", but its a poor hiding place, and we can all see you.
On Mon 27 May at 12:01pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@nancy - either of the major two parties would take political pain for taking a side in the Brexit debate. They'd lose heaps of votes if they became a Brexit party, just as they will when they finally commit to a second referendum on the issue.
The EU Elections don't show any sort of clear cut mandate to leave the EU....at all, due to there clearly being a higher proportion of the electorate voting for parties strongly supporting to remain or a second referendum. If you can't see this, then you're in denial. A binding second vote is unfortunately the only solution to this, and whatever the outcome, we go with it for a few years and then democratically re-appraise the situation (whether we're in the EU or not). This is surely the most reasonable and democratic way of resolving this.
On Mon 27 May at 12:05pm Tom Pain wrote:
Maybe it had little to do with immigration g.s. there are a lot of other concerns.
On Mon 27 May at 12:18pm Bert wrote:
Very poor turnout, those that want to stay in Europe obviously didn't bother voting, they care that much !
On Mon 27 May at 12:22pm Green Sleeves wrote:
I want to address the downvoters on my original post, regarding my comment about Nigel Farage being a racist/xenophobe/bigot.....it occurs to me that perhaps adding in some context to what I was saying would help, and that it was not indeed unreasonable of me to label him as those things.
So I base my remarks about him being an awful, bigoted xenophobic man firstly because of the tone and rhetoric he uses in his campaigning. Its always intended to whip up hate, fear or resentment and its obscenely transparent.....whether its his "Breaking Point" poster (of mainly non-white people) which he has since doubled-down on, or his policy of not letting people with HIV into the country, or cynically questioning EU citizens, and migrants in general contribution to society (despite the overwhelming evidence to support that they have, and how INCREDIBLY rude to question it given how this country has been helped significantly, including to fight off fascism, including ones that came from British subjugation in colonies).....whilst cosying up to Donald "King Bigot" Trump. In fact, the only thing going for Nigel Farage is that he possibly isn't quite as "bad" as Donald Trump!
On Mon 27 May at 12:32pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@Tom Pain - the vast majority of brexiters would struggle to think up an EU law that actually bothers them (or come up with some trivial nonsense about cucumbers and bananas, or parrot something about fishing policies they'll never bother to understand the nuances of or be usually bothered about in the first place), or even impacts them directly. They can't be seriously concerned about the EU membership fees, given that its a tiny fraction of our GDP, and generally results in favourable economic returns being part of the worlds largest trading bloc so massively offsets that £350m a week promised to the NHS. So thats the whole "take back control of laws and money" taken care of.....whats next, borders/immigration.
To me, this (brexit votes) mainly boils down to national pride, misguided patriotism and british exceptionalism. You may have some anti-globalist agenda that involves the Rothschilds or some well-worm conspiracy theory like that, but the vast majority of brexit voters just ultimately think Britain is better than the rest of the EU, and thinks our country is getting ruined by immigration, not enriched (culturally or financially), and the EU is to blame for that because they want some really annoying unfair reciprocal agreements in place.
On Mon 27 May at 12:48pm Sam wrote:
Green Sleeves, that’s it in a nutshell, well done but I fear there are people on this forum who aren’t the least bit interested in facts. We will probably end up with a hard Brexit which will be beyond disastrous but at least we will have “taken back control”. Shame we will lose Scotland on the way and God knows what’s going to happen to the people of Northern Ireland who have mostly got use to living in peace over the last two decades.
On Mon 27 May at 1:53pm Sam wrote:
Well whoever gave me a thumbs down, I would really like to read your reasoning, if you don’t mind. Civilised debate is not to be underestimated. How about all the Treaty of Lisbon info that was doing the rounds or the suggested future banning of two pin plugs, all lies of course but perhaps people just aren’t getting their information from trustworthy sources. Of course our British media would never lower itself.... or would it?
On Mon 27 May at 2:10pm Sam wrote:
Or rather “three” pin plugs were supposed to be banned by the EU, another lie.
On Mon 27 May at 2:45pm Sensible wrote:
Many have forgotten that the default state of relations with our enemies on the Continent is war, not pathetic "civilised debate" which, in plain fact, involves giving up to ignorant, lazy nations what is best about being born British. There are several generations of British boys who have grown up without the experience of prosecuting a war, and would not know how to attack for Queen and country, or even make their own beds in barracks. Whereas in wartime, the British people pull together and are healthier though growing their own food, and unite under appointed leaders. I remember to this day how my family spoke about my great grandfather whose leadership inspired many soldiers in Belgium in World War I to do their duty upon command. If we do not immediately separate from the Common Market and reconstitute our strong armed forces without caring about the tut-tutting of foreign powers, Britain will become dust. The ordinary people of this country now need instruction in loyalty, not votes. The horrors of the Treaty of Lisbon, including the compulsory loss of the Pound Sterling in favour of the Euro by 2022, and the loss of our independent nuclear weapons, are too much to bear.
On Mon 27 May at 2:59pm Hamid Barr wrote:
Someone's got their knickers well and truly in a twist today. Toys getting thrown all over the place. 15 posts (at the moment) and 5 of them from the same person and 4 from a clone.
Mouses helium farting in an echo chamber.
On Mon 27 May at 3:28pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Lol, I wondered how long it would take before the forums resident alt-right goon and prominent incel would show up. Yo Hamid, you still got a hangover from celebrating the victory of your new fascist party?? Still doing the old "helium voice" gag eh? They wonder why there are so few right wing comics...
On Mon 27 May at 3:57pm Hello wrote:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I think Greenie models himself on the Rik Mayall character from The Young Ones
On Mon 27 May at 4:00pm Hamid Barr wrote:
6. That elastic must be stretched to the limit
On Mon 27 May at 4:39pm Green Sleeves wrote:
7. Barr, you are living out the dream of being a forum villain and internet tuff-guy. You are a credit to the Barr clan.
On Mon 27 May at 6:48pm Hamid Barr wrote:
On Tue 28 May at 9:50am Tom Pain wrote:
No right wing comics? That's a good one,as hello observed, you're one of the best. Your satirical impersonation of a politically correct, progressive "youf" is spot on. How many "bigots" can you get in one post? The sky's the limit for Greensleeves, keep up the good work.
On Tue 28 May at 11:38am Green Sleeves wrote:
@tom pain, I wish I was young enough to be considered as part of the "youf".
I only call people out for what they are. The right are such snowflakes when it comes to being accurately labelled. They don't see themselves as the KKK or part of the BNP, so how could they possibly be racist by that rationale?! You have to lynch people to wear that badge.
On Tue 28 May at 1:50pm Hamid Barr wrote:
On Tue 28 May at 7:50pm Tom Pain wrote:
You call people out for what you think they are and what you're told they are. A few years ago I'd probably have agreed with you on a lot of things but the meaning of the words has changed so much so quickly. Then take the concept of hate speech -- that's how I would describe a lot of your posts, vitriolic outbursts of spiteful insults,just read some of them ! I might inadvertently "misgender" someone and you could have old bill knocking on my door.1984 is here and I just hope I'm not around when you're Kommandant of the thought police.
On Tue 28 May at 8:55pm Green Sleeves wrote:
Tom Pain, please stop waffling. Do you think that Nigel Farage doesn't have a racist or xenophobic bone in his body?
On Tue 28 May at 9:43pm Hamid Barr wrote:
On Tue 28 May at 11:42pm Tom Pain wrote:
Avoid an answer as usual green with envy,why not admit you don't need to be racist or xenophobic you just hate everyone equally!
On Wed 29 May at 7:23am Green Sleeves wrote:
At Tom Pain, avoid an answer to what? You literally didn't ask me a question, you just went on a personal dig. Speaking of avoiding an answer.....could you, in all honesty and sincerity, claim Nigel Farage doesn't have a racist or xenophobic bone in his body? It's no surprise you ducked that question, as it would be hard to say he doesn't with a straight face. Remember, you don't have to be at David Duke level to be considered racist, as much as the alt/far right would like to disagree to avoid such a label.
On Wed 29 May at 7:46am Hamid Barr wrote:
On Wed 29 May at 10:09am Slarty wrote:
Why do you think Farage is racist? He tried to ban racists from UKIP by not allowing membership of anyone who had been a member of BNP. He married a foreigner. And if you think it is a colour of skin thing then trying to get out of predominantly white Europe doesn't really support that one.
Could it be he is patriotic (which seems to automatically brand everyone a racist).
On Wed 29 May at 11:10am Green Sleeves wrote:
@slarty, expelling more overt racists than him doesn't prove he's not racist, nor does marrying a non British EU citizen. You understand that, right? However, he has spent his entire public career scapegoating migrants and the EU to win votes. He's misled and been disingenuous about immigration to the point where he flat out denies immigrants have made a positive contribution to society. This is music to the ears of nationalists who don't think any problem can't be solved without putting up barriers/borders. He has made numerous disparaging and stupid remarks about private languages overheard in trains, about Romanians being neighbours and all the kinds of things that are intended to cause division within our society. He fully endorsed a campaign which showed non white refugees, during the referendum, which had little relevance to our membership of the EU, it was just a way to rile his base. He preys on people's fears and portrays minorities as unwelcome guests, sometimes blatantly, mostly in subtle ways. Farage is no different to Tommy Robinson, he is just more eloquent and many people show deference to his posh public school background, where as Robinson is more of a yob. They both basically share the same views about British exceptionalism and foreigners though.
On Wed 29 May at 11:37am Hamid Barr wrote:
The hole gets ever deeper. Over his head now and with luck he'll vanish into his own rectum
On Wed 29 May at 12:39pm Slarty wrote:
Nope, I'm still missing it. If you take you biased slant away from what you say, it makes him very patriotic, which isn't racist.
He thinks that immigrants are stopping UK workers - not racist, he thinks it will help the UK economy.
He thinks that stronger border control is a good thing for the UK - not racist, he thinks it will help the UK economy and safety.
He thinks English should be spoken in UK - not racist.
That campaign was his moan that immigrants will have to be taken in by the UK because of Europe - not racist and very applicable to his crusade against the EU.
I don't agree with him on a lot, but I really don't think he is racist. He is patriotic and thinks the UK should run itself. Unfortunately, patriotism and racism seem to be blurred these days by people, like you, mixing the two up.
On Wed 29 May at 1:04pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@slarty, I think you're being extremely generous towards Nigel Farage here, perhaps highlighting your own biased slant on him. You don't see it, because you don't recognise that latent or casual racism is still racist and discriminatory, even if it doesn't involve lynch mobs and burning crosses. Farage is not overtly hostile towards non-Brits, but its clear his "patriotic" agenda does indeed put blame on the countries woes on the shoulders of outsiders, whether that is the European Union, or immigrants. This view and set of policies is based on lies and on fear, to get votes. Its as simple as that. He is one of Britains most effective rabble-rousers and demagogues, I grant him that....but it would be naive to think he's only got appreciation and admiration for migrants who have helped shape this country and made it thrive. He uses their mere presence to bait like-minded people, who do include proud racists and xenophobes. UKIP and the Brexit Party have attracted and emboldened the very worst people in society, the nationalists and far-right, and he is part of the appeal. He knows how to appeal to them, and shares that platform with them.
If you consider the examples I gave as him being "patriotic", then we're wasting our time. I personally think that making people feel guilty about speaking their native language in this country in a "private" conversation, that just so happens to be on public transport, to be a hugely revealing act of intolerance. It has NOTHING to do with patriotism, people should be able to converse in any language they like with other people (just as brits do abroad all the time, whether they're on holiday or they are immigrants in other lands). Its none of Farage or other xenophobes' business.....if you can't see this, then you are part of the problem.
On Wed 29 May at 1:14pm Green Sleeves wrote:
and just how on earth is saying he would be concerned if Romanians moved in next door to him NOT xenophobic?! He can add as much context to that as he likes, it was a racist slur on romanians and romanian immigrants. This is Nigel Farage, your patriotic hero.
On Thu 30 May at 8:24am Slarty wrote:
In context, that comment alone wasn't a xenophobic racist remark, IMHO. He had commented that in the EU 7% of all crime is committed by Romanian gangs. Add that to the comment of "people would be right to be concerned if a group moved in next door" and it is a different statement.
So many people jumped on the anti Farage band wagon, trying to stop him and Brexit, a lot was (and still is) taken out of context trying to turn people against him. It appears to have worked on you.
And, he is not my hero, I think he is wrong on so many levels, but I do not think he is a racist.