Lewes Forum thread

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Weird

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On 8 Mar 2017 at 9:24pm Mark wrote:
What a peculiar budget. A very weird choice about who to hammer next - the self-employed ie: couriers and hairdressers. People who get little or no return on their NI contributions.
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On 8 Mar 2017 at 9:37pm The Greek wrote:
While I can see the argument around the fact they receive the same state pension, there is no SSP, in-work benefits, maternity leave, holiday pay etc etc... Labour are proposing a package of that for self-employed people.

How the Tories can call themselves the party of the working people is a joke. Self-employed people and risk-takers starting their own business are what we need for innovation and the lifeblood of the economy. I can only hope this loses them plenty of votes they may have picked up last time round.
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On 8 Mar 2017 at 9:59pm Mark don't think wrote:
@ mark.
Couriers and hairdressers? Can I have your address please? just so I make sure you never get a cabinet maker anywhere near you. Doubt you could afford me anyway. I agree we should pay same ni.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 12:52am Hyena wrote:
Greek, you are a bit school debating society.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 7:32am Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
I think NI should just be merged with income tax. That's all it is, another tax.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 8:37am Clifford wrote:
The government won't do that, ACT, because it will make the tax rate sound so high. Most government is smoke and mirrors and sleight of hand and they'd be afraid of the impression it gives.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 12:04pm inthegutter wrote:
Not only should NI be merged with Income tax but potentially even capital gains tax.
I think it's pretty shocking that you pay less tax on money made from money as opposed to money made from actually working.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 12:09pm The Greek wrote:
NI kicks in at a much lower rate, but tax should be simplified. In the US corporations pay 35% tax! I say raise corporation tax and cut personal tax, that surely is a much fairer system and will be better for the economy at a basic level.
 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 12:17pm inthegutter wrote:
I'm a fan of "universal benefits" so I'd increase taxes and pay for more things centrally. For example:
- Basic funding of the BBC paid for from general taxation with premium elements (including most on demand services) covered by a subscription service.
- Basic car insurance to be included in road tax.
- Child benefit to be Universal again instead of the terrible system we currently have.
- Higher education to be free at the point of use.
- School meals to be free at the point of use.
- Public transport which is free at the point of use [maybe].
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 2:41pm The Greek wrote:
^ where shall we move and start this socialist utopia?
 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:03pm inthegutter wrote:
With the possible exception of the last one I don't think any of them are particularly controversial. I'd like to say all we need to do is demonstrate that it is more efficient than the alternative.
The problem is that you'd have to raise taxes (or cut spending elsewhere). Even if, for the average person, there was a net gain, this is difficult to convince the electorate it's in their interests.

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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:07pm inthegutter wrote:
Making public transport free at the point of use would have benefits of reducing emissions and reducing congestion. However, it would be unfair to people without access to public transport.
I'll probably get told off soon for not discussing a "local" issue and being a drug smoking communist.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:14pm Clifford wrote:
Inthegutter - I must say I like your proposals.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:27pm The Greek wrote:
Agreed. It's common sense really. If not at least re-nationalisation and subsidising of public transport like on the continent.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:30pm inthegutter wrote:
@Clifford - vote for me at the next meeting of the Lewes communist party branch!

Anyhow, the rationale behind my proposals is an anticipation that we may one day need some kind of guaranteed basic income. This itself depends on whether the jobs lost to automation are gained elsewhere (as has historically happened) or whether we find ourselves with a large pool of unemployed citizens. Instead of simply handing money over to people the state could provide additional services which they already use. By making them free at the point of use you can reduce some degree of bureaucracy. A good example of this is the NHS which despite it's failings is regarded to be one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world.

 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 3:34pm inthegutter wrote:
Most of my proposals are in anticipation of one day needing some kind of guaranteed basic income. This depends on whether the jobs displaced by automation are replaced elsewhere in the economy (like has happened in the past) or whether we have a large number of underemployed citizens. Either way I believe the state can provide some services more efficiently than the private sector by doing away with the bureaucracy of collecting fees. The NHS is a good example of this. Despite its failings it is regarded as one of the most efficient health care systems in the world.
 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 4:35pm Annette Curtin-Twitcher wrote:
Liking your proposals, InTheGutter.
Will you stand for parliament, please, so I can vote for you.
And Clifford, you make a valid point, and it highlights the contempt that politicians of all hues have for voters. They must think we're all thick.
 
 
On 9 Mar 2017 at 4:57pm The Greek wrote:
Yep, UBI is an inevitability, not a desire.
 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 7:33pm inthegutter wrote:
"Will you stand for parliament, please, so I can vote for you." oh, OK, go on then. Which party?
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 8:15pm Historian wrote:
At least Donald Trump actually tried to do what he said, within days of being in office, whereas here the poilcitians actually do the opposite to their manifestos ! You'd think they'd start getting the message, but no !!
 
 
On 9 Mar 2017 at 8:29pm Tom Pain wrote:
Stop private corporations creating the credit in this country and you might stand a faint chance of realising your dreams of a fairly just society. Stop watching TV and reading newspapers and you might find out who's running things. Otherwise dream on.
 
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 9:07pm Mark wrote:
Act.. As I'm sure that you'll remember... The idea that inthegutter is floating isn't new. It used to be referred to as the basic safety net before all thinking about social justice dissolved into the pool of Murdoch/Osborne/Hammond filth and greed and self-interest.
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On 9 Mar 2017 at 10:15pm Clifford wrote:
Historian wrote: 'At least Donald Trump actually tried to do what he said, within days of being in office...'
He's just a clown like all the rest. Like Clinton, who would have been the alternative, he'll be in the pocket of Wall Street after he's been allowed to play around for a few months. And then his voters will scratch their heads and wonder why they were fooled. Just as Clinton supporters would if she'd won. Then in 2020 the charade will begin again.


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