On Sun 18 Aug at 6:46pm Sam wrote:
In answer to “Sensible’s” take on the Irish border issue. Here’s the reality for the people both north and south who have lived in peace for the last couple of decades and something they are terrified of losing:
Today. A nurse can visit people on both sides of a border and carry drugs and medical devices. That ends on November 1st. That is a "hard border ". 1
When there is a storm and electricity lines are down, people fix them, no regard for a border. That ends on November 1st . That is a "hard border" 2/
If you get hurt in Derry or Donegal, an ambulance will come, a helicopter, from whoever is closest. That ends on November 1st. That is a "hard border" 3/
A Farmer in Fermanagh has his milk collected every morning for 20 years and turned into baby formula in ROI.. That ends on November 1st. That is a "hard border".4/
Paddy is selling a pig in the mart today, across a border. That ends on November 1st. That is a "hard border" 5/
Mikel , an EU citizen , living in Ireland, crosses a border 12 times a day, delivering bread, he becomes "alien" on November 1st. That is a "hard border"6/
What was legal on 31st October is illegal on November 1st. That is a "hard border”7/
Today the PSNI and the Gardai can share information in real time. That stops on November 1st. That is a "hard border" 8/
Today, you can live in one place and be French and work in other while the kids are at a childminder in one, the car in the other, the mortgage in either. That stops on November 1st. That is a "hard border" 9/
If you live on one side, shop in the other, pay vat without thinking, It ends on November 1st. That is a "hard border" 10/
If you die on one side and wish to be buried on the other, that ends on November 1st. No recognition of regulation . That is a "hard border" 11/
There are thousands of examples. This "border" is not about infrastructure.Not about a customs check. It is about people and their daily lives. 12/
If only we could consider Kent having a border with Sussex then we might begin to understand that the people of NI and Ireland have lives that matter. We need a lot more empathy.
On Sun 18 Aug at 8:01pm Tom Pain wrote:
Almost everyone on the forum probably agrees with you and most people in the whole world too. All the idealists in the revolutions for a better world agreed with you, how come they ended in vicious bloodbaths and a new bunch of psychopaths took power after the murder of hundreds of millions of idealists like you and me?
On Sun 18 Aug at 10:53pm Bert wrote:
Who Is precisely building the border ?
On Sun 18 Aug at 11:27pm Nevillman wrote:
Is anyone else staying to wonder if Tom is a troll?
On Mon 19 Aug at 7:36am Nevillman wrote:
The answer to your question Bert, is Brexit builds the border. There will be a border when we leave the customs Union.
On Mon 19 Aug at 7:39am Green Sleeves wrote:
@n, possibly, but I think he might just naturally talk nonsense and get excited about conspiracy theories. "Sensible" sounds more like a troll or parody account.
On Mon 19 Aug at 7:56pm Mister_D wrote:
4 people, so far, have downvoted Nevillman's purely factual statement about the Irish border? Downvoted.. what?
On Mon 19 Aug at 11:04pm Sam wrote:
This is such a frustrating forum subject. I know there are people out there that understand the madness of this but they’re tired of it all, as am I. But there is something in me that’s wants to scream “please, for Gods sake get real, this is going to affect the rest of your lives and you’re just sleep walking into a far worse place”. Hey ho! There’s nothing more I can say but when a hard Brexit happens I won’t hold it against most of you as you were, in my opinion, hoodwinked by a combination of a nasty right wing press and a bunch of narcissists who found themselves with political power because of some uninformed protest vote against austerity. When will we ever learn.
On Tue 20 Aug at 8:12am Hyena wrote:
If you allowed yourself to be hoodwinked and haven’t yet changed your mind , I’ll hold you responsible for the ruination of my kids future.
On Tue 20 Aug at 12:31pm Hello wrote:
How wonderful to see the Lewes middle classes with their knickers in such a massive twist. Come October 31st there's be enough toys strewn around the town to open a very large shop. They'll be in mourning with the rest of the liberatti chatterati, the BBC, the Grauniad and all the others who think they know best.
On Tue 20 Aug at 1:16pm Hyena wrote:
Hello, I’m SE London working class who happens to have a modicum of intelligence.
On Tue 20 Aug at 3:38pm Mister_D wrote:
Hello: what do you personally hope to gain from the Brexit? Not anything abstract like 'freedom' or 'sovereignty', which mean different things to different people, but personally?
On Tue 20 Aug at 3:39pm Hello wrote:
Yes of course you are. An attitude most suited to a Charlton supporter.
On Tue 20 Aug at 3:51pm Hello wrote:
@Mister-D - nothing whatsoever. My children and grandchildren will reap the benefit.
On Tue 20 Aug at 4:01pm Hyena wrote:
Hello, Wall actually, Circa 72.
On Tue 20 Aug at 4:15pm Hello wrote:
Millwall supporters tend not to dwell up their own rectum and patronise the masses as you do. You sound the sort who would be Grassline's biggest contributor.
On Tue 20 Aug at 4:26pm Hyena wrote:
Hello, Cheers, with that post you’ve made my point for me.
On Tue 20 Aug at 4:35pm Hello wrote:
Mine's clearly gone some distance over your head. Don't forget to have Grassline on speed dial on the rare occasions you turn up.
On Tue 20 Aug at 4:51pm Hyena wrote:
Never had to use it strangely enough. Body cams next though.
As I said you’ve made my point for me .
Maybe you shouldn’t deal in stereotypes and think for yourself.
On Tue 20 Aug at 5:49pm David Stanley wrote:
There's some awful people in Lewes these days.
On Tue 20 Aug at 6:06pm Hello wrote:
"deal in stereotypes" Don't make me laugh. I'll leave the stereotyping of Millwall support to the Lewes middle classes like yourself. I'm simply telling you you're out of tune with the vast majority of Millwall support in your opinions. Nothing wrong with having an opinion of course but you do like to talk down to people when expressing yours. Like much of this forum. I can guarantee the Millwall Season Ticket holders of Lewes wouldn't want you sat anywhere near them.
On Tue 20 Aug at 6:16pm Hyena wrote:
On Tue 20 Aug at 6:51pm Mister_D wrote:
@hello you dodged the question with a non-answer. What specific personal benefits do you expect your children and grandchildren to reap from Brexit? Pls, for the love of Christ don't say freedom
On Wed 21 Aug at 2:02pm Green Sleeves wrote:
@Mister_D - do you really think a hardlined brexiter like "Hello" will respond with anything compelling? They aren't interested in debating and providing any credible claims or evidence to support their views. They've glugged down the Kool-Aid already - its pretty much too late, as they have lapped up the euphoric feeling of nationalism and jingoism and don't wish to face the reality a hard brexit will create. When it does inevitably go belly-up, they can default to scapegoating the EU once again (or "remoaners" aka "enemies of the people" and "traitors").
They don't realise they are going to be the bad guys our grandchildren will read about in the history books. Yep, thats gonna be you they read about, congrats.
On Wed 21 Aug at 6:07pm Nevillman wrote:
Hello clearly thinks he knows what is best for my children and grandchildren. I have just checked with them and they disagree. You are right Green Sleeves it will be the fault of everyone but the leave voters when we are in economic turmoil, Union disintegration, buying health insurance to visit Europe and Ireland in chaos. The thought that hello is looking forward to the huge benefit of the leave vote in 30 years time will not be a comfort and I can't see any reason for it either.
On Wed 21 Aug at 7:18pm Mister_D wrote:
@Green Sleeves. Yes, but I do like to think of them as Romantics now - because it does explain why it would be *absolutely pointless* trying to convince hardcore Leavers to change their minds based on facts, reason and evidence: those are the very things they are rejecting. We also need to offer them a ladder to climb down - everybody I know who voted Leave has made their own (it was a protest vote gone wrong, they didn't think Leave would win anyway, the concept was fine but the government made a mess of it) - so we can all pretend they didn't just make a stupendously bad decision. That takes a lot of bravery too, to do that.
On Wed 21 Aug at 7:21pm Mister_D wrote:
And yes I've not been helping by being so beligerent It's a work in progress.
On Tue 1 Oct at 11:54am bushy wrote:
I spent a large part of my late teens and early 20s on that border, it will be as hard or as soft as the locals want to make it , it was ever thus , Sinn Fein and their ilk are using it as an excuse to further their aims, have a look at sinn feins voting record on the EU pre brexit