On 29 Mar 2017 at 3:37pm Thomas Haynes wrote:
Why Brexit upsets and frightens me so much. I am 17 (16 at the time) and was denied a right to vote.
Mostly the older generation have voted to throw away my future, and I didn't get a say (at least none of my relatives played the "I'm voting leave to give my children/grandchildren a better future" card). Furthermore, the leave campaign was led by Trump supporters, neo-nazis and racist opportunists, and we've done exactly what they told us to. We will lose a lot of EU funding - on which a lot of my area's public buildings/community projects/recreational facilities etc. were built - and any financial gain from not paying into the EU will be wiped out by the fact that our currency is now worthless. Having studied Inter-war Germany for my History GCSE last year, I'm getting a horrible sense of Deja-Vu watching the increased scapegoating of minorities (this time, it's Muslims), the systematic targeting of the vulnerable (disabled, unemployed, low paid etc.) and the abuse of power from our - unelected - PM. This has been worsened by our vote of support for the extreme-right's message of isolationism and intolerance. Theresa May is negotiating through half-baked threats of national self-harm and expecting everyone else to bend over backwards to make sure we get a better deal out than we did in, which the EU simply can't give us. We're shafted.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 3:59pm Southstreeter wrote:
On 29 Mar 2017 at 4:01pm Deja Vu wrote:
Brexit is the least of your worries, I would be panicking about lacking of employment in the young, high house prices and high taxes if I was you...
Brexit or no Brexit your future is limited in the UK.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 4:11pm The Forum Nutter wrote:
There is nothing worse than a smart @rse kid. Go and read the Beano, squeeze a few spots, and annoy your neighbours with pop music. The earth will still keep spinning when we leave the EU.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 4:27pm Mr J Ive wrote:
Relax yung man. 'S coo', bro.. Everydin' be goin' t'be fine. What it is, Mama. Right On! Stop wo'ryin' and enjoy yo' ya'd and it duz not last long.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 4:32pm endoftheouse wrote:
"Brexit frightens you" You need to unlatch from your mum's nipple and grow some b@lls lad.You seem like the sort of boy that's left until last when the captain's pick their team.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 4:50pm Buzzard wrote:
The earth will keep spinning for sure. Just like it did after the meteorite strike that killed the dinosaurs. That wasn't much help to the dinosaurs, though.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 5:33pm Kestrel wrote:
When/if you learn to think critically and for yourself you'll be rightly ashamed of parroting such narrow-minded rubbish.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 5:37pm Hannibal wrote:
It was great how all of Europe joined together to defeat the Nazis......oh
On 29 Mar 2017 at 5:46pm Tim wrote:
I can understand the concerns of the younger generation (say up to 40 yrs of age) because they have not known anything other than being being part of the EU and formerly the EEC. As I said in another thread, I can remember life before we joined. It is difficult to know whether any changes that have taken place are due to membership of the EU or simply progress in general.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 6:02pm ClarifiedButler wrote:
To echo some of the other comments above, I'm relatively young and did vote remain with a heavy heart. The real things to worry about for the future will be just how the economy of post-industrial societies like ours can possibly support enough jobs and services to provide their societies with opportunities and stability. The computers are coming for basically everything, make no mistake. We are living longer, producing less and steadilying erroding the social support framework of family and friends (if statistics are to be believed). The internet, social media, artificial intellgence, globalisation and consumer culture are all destroying humanity as we know it. We are increasingly living to benefit the 'system', our membership of the EU (or termination of it) will do very little to reverse this relationship between man and technology. We have sowed the seeds of our own demise, not through some ideological conflict (not yet anyway), but through sheer technocratic servitude to the perpetuation and expansion of an integrated system of human activity, both economic and social. If you want to get your panties in a twist then let it be that.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 6:44pm Mark wrote:
Well said, young Thomas - A much more balanced and perceptive view than most of these forum goons
On 29 Mar 2017 at 7:17pm Lewes girl wrote:
Some of us feel the same way about being taken in to the EU without our consent.
I have children that are too young to vote my youngest wanted to vote out.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 7:21pm Q wrote:
Thomas your use of language and views are identical to those of a certain Mr Newman!
On 29 Mar 2017 at 8:09pm Grow up sunshine wrote:
You have a lot to learn my little spring chicken. You no doubt have thus far learnt from a bunch of leftie luvvies at your local comp. Let me guess, you feel upset when you hear a poor little serial killer has been given a frightfully long 25 year sentence? You shudder at the thought of borders and think it is okay for the whole world to cram themselves into one single corner of it? You scoff at the notion of nationhood? You'd need to fetch a dictionary and spend several hours scratching your head in bemusement to grasp the definition of patriotism? You think 'QGBLT' is the best thing since sliced bread, or in your case, gluten free, organic, ethically sourced bread? You think prisons are a waste of money? You'd like to see an end to the military and think the country will be safe just being friendly and cuddly to the rest of the loving world? If so, you're unfortunately yet another example of Britain's Brainwashed Babes. You need to get out into the real world sunshine.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 10:08pm Terry wrote:
As the UK government hands across its letter to the EU triggering Article 50, a poll was published showing that the judgment British voters made on 23 June last year has remained steady. There has been a very slight movement of opinion in support of leaving. Within the generations, the differences remain as striking as they were in the vote itself: there is no majority for leaving the EU amongst those under 55. Those between 55 and 64 favour Brexit by a mere 52%. It is the over 65ís who swing the outcome as they break 59% for Leave. In contrast, the under 25s are 55% for staying in the EU and only 32% for Leave. Brexit is government of the old, by the old, for the old - and it will perish with the old. Maturity could still mean that it is the right thing to do; only in Theresa May's hands Brexit has become an attempt to restore a 17th century version of sovereignty that is bound to fail.
Check it out here »
On 29 Mar 2017 at 10:19pm Phantom wrote:
Well, 'Grow Up Sunshine', having read Thomas's post, it is clear that he makes valid points in an intelligent manner. You, meanwhile, spout predictable nonsense, Not once does Thomas mention serial killers, borders, nationhood, patriotism, QGBLT, gluten free, prisons, the military, etc. It is you that has brought all of these things into the discussion because you want to find something to be critical about and to validate your own position. Did you even read his post, or is it just that you didn't understand it?
Yet another brainwashed Brexit moron that gives the rest of the people who voted with you a bad name. (And no, I don't believe all Brexiters are morons) It strikes me that Thomas, despite only being 17, is more capable of making educated and informed choices than you, yet you had a vote and he didn't. Says it all.
On 29 Mar 2017 at 10:42pm Earl wrote:
Thomas - I'm sorry you've received so many patronising replies. I actually voted leave because I was worried about the younger generation. Financially, I would be better off if we stayed in the EU, but I felt that the freedom of movement and net migration of 300,000 a year was making housing unaffordable for my son's generation and encouraging employers to seek cheap labour from the poorer parts of the EU rather than their local community. I witnessed this in my own workplace and went from being an ardent EU supporter to a doubter. I agree that it is scary that Brexit was supported by so many dreadful people, but the EU is not the grand philanthropic enterprise that some make it out to be and it supports the agendas of global corporations above those of communities. Look at how the Greeks have been treated recently. If we manage to have a decent government with some vision, there's no reason why we should be any worse off in the long run, as the disadvantages could be offset by the opportunities.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 12:21am Always Rivalled Seldom Equalled wrote:
Hannibal, "All of Europe joined together to defeat the Nazis"?
What about Andorra, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Sweden & Switzerland?
On 30 Mar 2017 at 1:28am Fairmeadow wrote:
And indeed Germany, Austria, Italy and Hungary
On 30 Mar 2017 at 6:10am Earl wrote:
Hannibal's post-truth version of World War Two is scarily wrong. One of the outstanding aspects of the war was that between the fall of France and the invasion of the Soviet Union, Britain stood alone. The French arguably betrayed us, while Spain, Portugal, Italy and Hungary were pro-Nazi.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 6:19am Earl wrote:
Sorry @Hannibal. I've just read your post and realised that this is exactly the point you were making. I should have read the post rather than just the reaction to it.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 7:29am Sunshine wrote:
Look sunshine you will be better off in a independent country such as Britain. The future is bright for our country so don't worry, go get some designer shades, all is well.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 8:19am Hannibal wrote:
Anyone in Lewes ever heard of Pavlov?
On 30 Mar 2017 at 10:25am Observer wrote:
Whatever your views on Brexit, you must surely understand that for a lot of young people it is a real blow that they will no longer be able to study or work in France, Germany, Spain, Holland, Italy or Sweden at the drop of a hat, without any barriers and on the same terms as local people.
i One of the outstanding aspects of the war was that between the fall of France and the invasion of the Soviet Union, Britain stood alone
That's really not true, is it? What about all the Indians, Carribeans, Africans, Canadians, Australians and Kiwis, not to mention the huge contributions of the Polish and Czech air force, the various free troops based in London (Dutch, NOrwegian, French etc.)
On 30 Mar 2017 at 12:00pm Earl wrote:
When I was at university, I had several Swedish friends. In those days, Sweden wasn't in the EU, but they didn't encounter any obstacles to studying here. People are exagerrating the difficulties. We did manage to study and travel in Europe before 1973.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 1:40pm Spike wrote:
Surely the Green supporters will be against the unnecessary emissions caused by students traveling for their education. Also, gap year travel is a horrific attack on indigenous cultures which are wiser than us.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 2:19pm Observer wrote:
Earl - of course people will still be able to study in Europe. However, if you take a look at a university in say, the Netherlands - popular because they offer almost all their courses in England - you will note that the fees for an EU student is around £1,000. The fee for non-EU students is around £8,000. This differential holds throughout Europe. Paying a grand for a course for a year (and often being able to get local maintenance grants and benefits) is obviously much less of a barrier than paying £8k and having to fund everything yourself.
When I was in my twenties I turned up in Ibiza and then in Berlin and managed to get bar work - I had to register but then I could get employed just as a local. It's a real shame that my kids will not be able to do this without jumping through a lot more hoops.
It seems to me that Brexiteers think we can keep all the good things about Europe (don't worry, it'll be fine) while getting rid of all the things they don't like. Any new barriers to desirable things are dismissed as 'well, we managed before', while any barriers to getting what they want are the EU refusing to give ground or 'punishing' us.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 2:21pm Observer wrote:
correction: They offer almost all their courses in English.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 3:57pm Based wrote:
I love it when boomers tell you about their "crazy wild youth" traveling the world as if it's the highlight of their life. It makes their children feel really special.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 4:03pm Thanks Norm wrote:
£8,000 for a course in Holland is still significantly cheaper than going to uni in this country.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 4:53pm Observer wrote:
I'm not a boomer. I'm in my late thirties. My kids are at infant school.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 4:54pm Observer wrote:
8k per year. 24k vs 3k for non eu vs eu students for a 3 year degree.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 5:25pm Based wrote:
Try not to take things personally. It's a tell.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 10:13pm Earl wrote:
@Observer. I agree that those Brexiteers who think that we are entering a new golden age are daft. The next five to ten years are going to be hard. I voted to leave with a heavy heart and if the EU had been more flexible about issues like freedom of movement I would have voted to remain. But I remain convinced that a net migration of 300,000 a year isn't sustainable. We were caught between a rock and a hard place. If we had a decent government, Brexit could end up being a democratic revolution, but at the moment we are led by one of the most uninspiring cabinets since MFI went bust.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 10:18pm Earl wrote:
Forget about what I just wrote,I m just a mean spirited ignorant little xenophobe.
On 30 Mar 2017 at 11:37pm Earl wrote:
It's nothing to do with xenophobia, it's about sustainability in a world that's facing climate change. But you're clearly determined to see the issue in black and white terms, so I'll leave you to carry on with your fake posts.