On 5 Oct 2016 at 4:08pm Copy&Paste wrote:
In the past cannabis wasn’t thought to be addictive. However, research has shown that it can be addictive, particularly if you have been using it regularly for quite a while. About 10% of regular cannabis users are thought to become dependent.
As with other addictive drugs such as cocaine and heroin, you can develop a tolerance to it. This means you have to have more and more to get the same effects. If you stop taking it, you can experience withdrawal symptoms, such as cravings, difficulty sleeping, mood swings, irritability and restlessness.
If you regularly smoke cannabis with tobacco, you’re likely to get addicted to nicotine and may develop tobacco-related illnesses, such as cancer and coronary heart disease. If you cut down or give up, you will experience withdrawal from nicotine as well as cannabis.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 4:13pm Blastfromthepast wrote:
I think you're on to something there. I last had pot in the 90's and still miss it
On 5 Oct 2016 at 4:48pm I'm super super cereal wrote:
I once became addicted to trolling on Forums, I know it sounds silly, but my day just wasn't complete without trolling at least one person. To be point that I became irritable and had mood swings if I didn't get my fix.
Maybe we should ban forums?
Also I have noticed that a lot of celebrities have become sex addicts, maybe we should ban sex too?
Society just doesn't know what's good for it, luckily about 0.0001% of the population knows what's best.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 4:49pm Pedro wrote:
The way this whole argument is framed is to lump cannabis in with "cocaine and heroin" to make it look far worse than the actual reality, whilst conveniently not mentioning how much more addictive those drugs are by comparison, or how they compare also with legal drugs like tobacco and alcohol (heres the answer most of us already know : its nowhere near as addictive as cocaine, heroine, alcohol or tobacco). Its so utterly transparent and manipulative - one could describe it as "gutter journalism".
Lets bring some sanity back into the discussion, rather than hyperbole. In a recent study in 2015, it demonstrated that cannabis was in fact by far the least addictive of all recreational drugs (which includes the legal ones), and critically was by far the lowest risk of mortality. While with any enjoyable recreational drug, there is a varying risk of addiction which could lead to some dependency (and of course the body naturally builds up a tolerance in order to allow humans to function normally as possible) - but what is crucial is that not only is that risk lower in the first place, there is no achievable overdose on cannabis to any dangerous level, and certainly not a fatal overdose. An individual can overdose quite easily in a matter of minutes on alcohol, as well as heroin, and potentially fatally. Nor does it lead to the alarming physical kind of dependencies of other drugs that can lead to death upon withdrawal due to various vital organs becoming dependent on the drug.
Also worth noting that I've never advocated consuming cannabis in a joint. Its much more sensible to buy a vapouriser and vape it pure, with no mixture of tobacco. Or use as an edible. This will reduce the level of addiction, and is generally cleaner and safer, and cheaper.
Check it out here »
On 5 Oct 2016 at 4:53pm Ben wrote:
I'm sure that's true, but alcohol is more addictive. I've had plenty of pot and had no issues or whatsoever. I have however craved alcohol to the point of despair. In not a pot head or an alcoholic but a successful professional. I am addicted to alcohol. I cannot give it up. Two weeks of craving hell was my longest dry period. We're not talking a bottle of vodka a day here. I have two glasses of wine every night and a few pints of Harvey's here and there, and that is enough to have me 'hooked'.
I ask again why is the milder drug illegal?
If there was any logic to be this, it would be alcohol that was illegal. In fact, if alcohol was only invented tomorrow then it most certainly would be illegal.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 5:03pm Pedro wrote:
@ Ben, good post. It sounds like you've built a tolerance to alcohol, whereby you can drink a fair amount, but function perfectly normally. But as you point out so candidly, its still an addiction for you and the prospect of going "cold turkey" is not appealing.
I'm sure not many of us here, myself included, would like alcohol banned - it would be counter-productive, and we've seen how prohibition fails every time. I feel adults should be able to make their own decisions around what they choose to do with their own bodies.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 5:16pm crumb wrote:
Is Pedro paul newmans new dopehead alter ego? - they seem to share the same rambling, incoherent posts and inability to understand reason.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 5:31pm Copy&Paste wrote:
exactly what i was thinking. Self opinionated with an inflated sense of self importance
On 5 Oct 2016 at 5:32pm Pedro wrote:
@ crumb. - Oh dear. More ad-hominem attacks and feeble attempted character assassination attempts.
If you think my posts are incoherent, then that doesn't say an awful lot for your grasp of the English language. Also, coming from a similar position of anti-drugs for a fair chunk of my life (having it drummed into one by society from an early age), and having now changed position in recent years out of both curiosity and research, I feel I have a fairly good ability to understand "reason".
But hows this for a crazy idea? Lets try to stick to the arguments about the topic, rather than trying to fling insults at individuals.
On 5 Oct 2016 at 6:31pm robbie wrote:
I guess some opinions are so deep rooted that there is no reasoning with some people. The police, the drugs advisory committee and the last labour government (among many) all class it as an offence that should not be criminalised but yet a few indivuals know better. Can I ask some of those with strong anti opinions against cannabis why they think it has been legalised in several countries very recently (if it's as bad as they think it is)?
On 5 Oct 2016 at 10:56pm Flower pot man wrote:
Skin me one up then!!
On 6 Oct 2016 at 7:48am inthegutter wrote:
@crumb and the others: As a more or less neutral observer (someone who is not a fan of drugs but acknowledges the proven advantages of limited legalisation of some drugs) it's pretty clear who is more guilty of using "rambling, incoherent posts and inability to understand reason." and it's not Pedro. This combined with the constant ad hominem attacks really does make you and the others seems peculiarly desperate.
I like to think I'm a bit of a pragmatist, so while I would never encourage my children to use cannabis, I realise its highly likely that they, like many other people in the UK, will at the very least try it. As such I want to make sure they're as safe possible which is only possible through regulation - taking the production and supply out of the hands of criminals and ensuring an untainted product.
Regulating (and taxing) cannabis would ensure that more resources are available to better treat addiction (of all drugs) and control much more damaging drugs.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 7:48am inthegutter wrote:
I also object to the idea that just because something is illegal it is automatically wrong or morally dubious. It was not too long ago (and in other countries remains the case) that homosexuality was illegal and dangerous to society.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 8:09am Gay pot smoker wrote:
On 6 Oct 2016 at 8:46am Copy&Paste wrote:
In the gutter=pedro, at least try to disguise your waffle and not use the same phrases. Some of us havs fully functioning brains.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 9:16am Pedro wrote:
@ Copy&Paste - you're floundering badly now. Instead of responding to the content of the posts from inthegutter, you're attacking me again and coming up with baseless accusations. Do you not realise how utterly tragic this looks? I'm sorry that other people agree with me on certain issues, which for some reason grates on you.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 9:39am The Greek wrote:
You're all sheep believing what the government tells you.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 10:42am Copy&Paste wrote:
On 6 Oct 2016 at 10:51am Robbie wrote:
"Cannabis isn't safe. It can cause mental illness, pyschosis, schitzophrenia and damages young brains in particular. This is all backed up by evidence."
Actually there is good evidence to say that it has a very negative effect on people with these conditions, but there is no evidence of it CAUSING any of these.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 11:14am Pedro wrote:
@ "." - Nobody here is advocating that children/teenagers to use cannabis for anything other than medicinal purposes, of which it has many uses that far outweigh the risks involved when using it in the low quantities we are discussing here. Drinking alcohol at any stage of life has serious consequences (and is undisputed by the scientific community, unlike the claims you are making here about cannabis) on mental health and brain development. Cannabis meanwhile has been shown to actually have many neurological benefits including neuroprotective effects and considerably help patients suffering with MS, epilepsy, parkinsons, strokes and alzheimers etc. It has demonstrated that it can protect the brain directly after traumas and even has been shown to promote neurogenesis (name one piece of research on alcohol where it shows it helps grow braincells, let alone destroy them).
We are talking about adults having the choice in what they choose to put in their own bodies for either recreational or medicinal reasons. The "evidence" is rather scant on the negatives in 2016, and more and more contradictory studies are coming out every year as the drug successfully shakes off the stigma attached to it thanks to government propaganda.
Your "fear" of big multinational companies and "shady businessmen" is paranoia, as the total opposite is unfolding. You de-criminalise drugs, and regulate cannabis, and the black market falls apart (as shown in the USA already, where the mexican drug cartels profits are now diminishing as 25 states now grow and regulate their own supply, and provide it much cheaper, and benefit from the tax revenues). Colorado has seen job creation grow, unemployment fall, crime fall, and tax revenues rise - subsidising their elementary school system in the process.
Drug use has also fallen in Portugal since ALL drugs were de-criminalised, and most crucially, drug overdoses have now become so rare, they are shaming the rest of the European Union, while the UK sits "proudly" among the worst countries in Europe for drug-overdose deaths.
I would suggest if you want to live in authoritarian states, then you should give it a go for a year, and see how stifling it can be. It doesn't just begin and end with drug controls either. If you prefer the state to dictate your life and others, just for the sake of slightly lower crime rate, offset with a higher suicide rate and less freedoms, then I'll be happy to help pack your bags.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 11:18am Robbie wrote:
Thumb me down but don't provide any evidence typical...
If the question is:
"does cannabis cause depression and schizophrenia or do people with these disorders use it as a medication?"
The answer is:
"The available research shows that those who have a family history of a psychotic illness, or those who have certain characteristics such as schizotypal personality, or possibly have certain types of genes, may increase the risk of developing a psychotic illness following the regular use of strong cannabis."
But what does The Royal College of Psychiatrists know...
Check it out here »
On 6 Oct 2016 at 11:22am inthegutter wrote:
@. You clearly didn't both to read my post.
@. "@inthegutter Cannabis isn't safe." Show me where I claimed that it was safe?! I'm not claiming it is. My point is that it will be used (whether or not it is illegal) and the limited resources available (to police / NHS) are better directed to dealing with serious dependence and much more dangerous drugs.
@. "... haven't bothered to listen to the counter debates and only care about their selfish desire to smoke something that they dont need to." you clearly didn't read my post. I have no desire to smoke or otherwise consume cannabis. I detest the smell and having tried it a couple of time I did not enjoy it.
@Copy&Paste I'm afraid to say your text recognition is not particularly good. I'm not Pedro.
@. Both Singapore and Japan are culturally very different from Western Europe the US so do not present a fair comparison. I should also note that Singapore's approach to cannabis (in fact their entire criminal system) is particularly repressive (using capital punishment). Despite the fact it's legalised cannabis use is lower in the Netherlands than it is in most of Western Europe.
@. It sounds like you'd prefer prohibition of all drugs?
On 6 Oct 2016 at 11:41am Pedro wrote:
You have got to love this forum. Reason wins out in the end (as Lewes is a relatively progressive town). The cynical trolls eventually get outnumbered and more paranoid, and resort to outdated fear-mongering tactics to try and push their dogma.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:16pm Parent wrote:
Pedro you really are quite delusional. You have not won any arguements.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:23pm Malling mum wrote:
Pedro and your other aliases. As a mum I would not let my kids anywhere near your house. Do you let the parents of your childs friends know about your habit? No..ashamed? Embarassed?
Check it out here »
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:28pm @parent wrote:
Pedro wins the argument by default, as he has answered most of the points raised by the rants, where as others have just ignored any reasonable counter arguments raised.
*I'm not listening* - yes very mature.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:35pm @Malling mum wrote:
Considering that the original argument (all those threads ago) was about my reply (posted as "Yeah") to say isn't it about time we had an adult conversation to finally deal with drug dealers in a mature and effective way, it's amazing how a few people have perverted the conversation so much.
And the original point is still valid, if society changed it's attitude towards drugs your children would be far better protected than they are today (there is literally a dealer in every street).
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:36pm Do one wrote:
On 6 Oct 2016 at 12:47pm Pedro wrote:
@ malling mum - again, more paranoid butthurt rants from the anti-drug brigade. I actually think some of the arguments raised by others on here (that you assume as "aliases" of mine) are actually really well thought out and reasonable, and I wish I had written them myself, but alas I can't take the credit for them no matter how hard you wish it to be true.
I've told a few people (including friends and family) I vape cannabis when its come up in conversation, some of them quite surprised (because of daft stereotypes of people who use marijuana as usually old hippies or young hooligans - which I am clearly neither), but seem to be quite open minded about it all and rarely judgemental because I give them no reason for them to think cannabis is impacting my life negatively. I also tell them I'm a vegetarian, and that also surprises some, but seem actually less open minded about that! I don't force either lifestyle choice upon anyone but if it comes up in conversation I'm not ashamed or embarrassed by it as it doesn't define me. Live and let live, some people are so concerned and worked up by what others do in private.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 1:15pm sad wrote:
Delusional doesn't quite cover some of their stupid evasive rants and the fact that they think anyone who disagrees with them is either a troll or authoritarian is a the sign of a diseased mind. The funniest thing is they think that by pushing a dangerous mind altering drug on society that contributes to lifelong mental illness in some they are being trendy and progressive.
The damage to their brains is so blatently clear just a shame they can't see it. My advice is to grow up, take some responsible in your life and that of your childs pedro and do something more productive with your time and money.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 1:22pm inthegutter wrote:
I am not Pedro. It's pretty clear from our posts we have different views about drug use (I don't - I don't even drink caffeine and barely touch alcohol these days), though we do agree on both the benefits of regulation and the fact that the prohibition on cannabis is inconsistent with legal status of alcohol and nicotine.
Of course, if you think it somehow strengthens your argument to think you're in some kind of "moral majority" go right ahead. Bless.
Although actually, I'm also vegetarian so maybe I am Pedro after all...
On 6 Oct 2016 at 1:23pm Tom Pain wrote:
I believe early Ford cars in USA had a form of plastic panelling made from hemp. I think it was Du Pont whose oil based plastic was threatened by this had to find a way to get rid of the competition. The answer was a smear campaign on hemp, hence the reefer madness films etc. Before you press the conspiracy drivel button,good doctors,look it up or consider the recent revelations about the sugar industry smearing fat consumption to protect itself.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 2:13pm inthegutter wrote:
Thinking about it.
I can understand a view point that access to cannabis, alcohol, and nicotine should ALL should be restricted - they are all after all harmful. However, I think the viewpoint that alcohol and nicotine should be legal but cannabis should be ilegal lacks consistency given the weight of scientific evidence.
On 6 Oct 2016 at 2:15pm Robbie wrote:
Sack cloth and more importantly sail cloth was also made from hemp (for many hundreds of years), the plant has incredibly long and strong strands, so was ideally suited to making sails. It's fair to say the world would be a different place without the plant. Part of the reason it was banned is that Egypt had it added to the world drug agreement (to protect their cotton clothing industry).
On 6 Oct 2016 at 2:21pm inthegutterofstupidity wrote:
For the last time - just because two harmful substances are legal doesn;t mean you should try and legalise another. You cannot be this thick surely?